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Anyone Else Attract Liars?
October 6, 2006
7:15 pm
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SassyAlex
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What is it with me attracting liars? Every serious relationship I've had has been with men who try to act like someone they are not just to keep me in their lives. Instead of telling me the truth about themselves, they tell me huge lies, why do they do this? I cannot imagine it is a happy existence to have to pretend every day you're somebody you're not. To basically be two different people: the person they get me to believe they are and the person they really are.

I guess I really don't understand this because I don't know how to be someone I'm not. I speak my mind, I tell people how I feel, even if I know it's hard for them to hear. I don't ever want there to be dishonesty in my relationships because I know it always bites you in the ass. Plus, I would never act like I'm someone else just to keep someone. I lay it all out from the beginning, the good, the bad, and the ugly and say If you don't like it you can go. But it seems very few people are able to do this.

So I'm looking for input. Anyone else attract fakers and liars? Or are any of you on the other side of it? Do you pretend you're someone you're not just to hold onto someone? And if so, could you explain the reasons? Isn't it difficult to live that way? Doesn't the truth always come out in the end?

October 6, 2006
7:30 pm
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I'm not sure if I attract them, but when I have been lied to and confronted them, I was told I was difficult to tell the truth to (sorry I ended with a preposition).

Yes, I don't understand why someone would lie when ultimately the truth will come out. Apparently, the immediate image you want to portray is the goal.

If the truth is that you have done something rotten, and then you tell the truth, and your experience has been that that gets you anger and yelling and criticism and blaming, then I guess lying would be a common-sense manoeuver to protect yourself.

October 6, 2006
7:40 pm
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SassyAlex
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I understand what you are saying. I've given this a lot of thought. Yes, when I find out I'm being lied to, I do freak out and get angry....but how am I supposed to react and feel??? Really, can someone answer this? How does a person expect you to react when you find out they've done some horrible things? Am I supposed to just say Oh well and give them a kiss? And if I did do that, it would teach the person they could get away with that behavior.

Isn't a person saying they couldn't tell you something because you would freak out just a way that they can dump all the blame of the situation on you?

October 6, 2006
7:50 pm
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Brynnie

How is it that someone else's lying becomes your fault? Sounds like blaming the victim to me.

I have been lied to by a certified sociopath. It hurt me to the core. It made all other liars look like amateurs. It was not my fault.

I learned a lot from it. I make it clear now that I won't tolerate dishonesty or deceit. That is my boundary. If I am lied to once, well that is the other person's issue. If I am lied to twice, then that becomes my issue.

That boundary resulted in a smaller inner circle at first, and as it grew, it became filled with more trustworthy people.

I realize that it takes a long time sometimes to get to know if someone is trustworthy. People don't introduce themselves and say, "hi, I am so charming, and I am gonna lie and deceive you!" So, no matter what my first impressions tell me, I like to take plenty of time to watch and learn.

P&L

October 8, 2006
3:53 pm
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SassyAlex
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The last conversation I had with my ex was regarding how he lied and faked throughout our relationship to keep me reeled in. Let me try to explain, it's all jumbled in my head right now, and I think putting in here in writing might help me sort it out. Plus maybe some of you can relate.

I am very passionate about, and involved in, activism. I'm not sure if I should say specifically because it might give away my identity. Anyway, my ex and I had a very strong attraction to each other from the beginning...I believe what draws me to him the most is his smell. Not cologne, but the body smell we pick up on with people and don't even realize it. I have a really sensitive sense of smell. Anyway, we had/have this strong attraction, but we don't share the same beliefs on things. I told him from day one I couldn't date someone who didn't share my same beliefs and passions. (Been there, done that, always a disaster). He, from the beginning, always respected and showed an interest in learning about my passions.

I tried to break it off many times in the beginning and even since then, telling him I know it just won't work because of our different belief systems. But here's where it gets sticky. He Oh So Genuinely would tell me that he is interested and could one day be on the same page as me, it would take some time, etc etc. He would send me links from websites, showing me he was doing research. He would bring me little gifts that correlated with what I'm interested in.

So then I debated. Do I get out now, or do I give this person a chance to grow? After all, he recently came from another country where activism was barely allowed. So I tried to be patient, tried to be the teacher. But I ALWAYS told him. If this is not what you're into, if you're just doing all this for me, PLEASE PLEASE walk away. I begged him to. He always reassured me he wasn't doing it all for me.

And whenever we would break up, he'd send me little manipulative messages, like how he had been somewhere I love, or he had watched something about what I was interested in...trying to make it seem like he was interested even when I wasn't around.

Well now 2 years later, I see that he is absolutely nothing of what he's been trying to lie and fake to keep me. I'm SO angry and SO upset, because I told him, time and time again, please don't lead me on, please just go if you are lying or faking. Oh no, he hung in there. And now I am little by little seeing that he wasn't anything I thought he was. He's basically been living two separate lives. The one with me and the one without me. It's so sick.

Now, after all this, he's trying to turn it around on me. He either says he couldn't tell me stuff because I'd freak out OR he just recently said "I wasn't pretending anything with you. You knew very well who I am and what I am into." HUH???!? So basically it's my fault for projecting onto him although he's spent 2 years trying to make me buy a product that doesn't exist.

I am willing to take responsibility here. I did know what he was in the beginning. And it would be just like me as a codependent person to try to mold this person, to show him the way with my love. But I DIDN'T WANT TO. I thought I was doing the right thing, the healthy thing, by telling him to walk away. But instead of holding on to him, I let him hold onto me.

I don't know, I'm rambling here, but I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Why didn't he just go out and find a woman who is into the same stuff as him? (Trust me it would be WAY easier for him to find a match than me as far as beliefs) Why would he waste all his energy trying to prove to me that he's someone he's not? Why would someone choose to live that way?

And now he won't even admit to me that's what he was doing all along. Which is making me feel crazy. Like I know the truth, but he won't admit it to me.

Any thoughts?

October 8, 2006
4:09 pm
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hurtstobreathe
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I may be naive, but I think that he's just telling you all this now to hurt you because he's hurt that you are ignoring him. He perceives things as if you've hurt him. People like that can't stand not getting attention (a response from you). And they get something from hurting others back. I don't understand it, but they do. My cousin had an ex just like that. No connection w/ reality at all. Totally unable to relate to the other person. He doesn't see all the stuff he's done to you. Maybe he does understand it & places the blame on you so he doesn't have to accept it for himself.

Don't take it personal b/c I really don't think that's how he felt. Think about it, why would he have worked THAT hard for THAT long if all he cared about was reeling you in. And if he didn't care at all, why would he be concerned w/ reeling you in the first place? He just didn't know how to have a relationship--how to treat someone. Might not have ever learned. I read in one of WorriedDad's responses that girls should learn about bad relationships in school. People should also be taught how good relationships should be.

Then he's just retarded because he just spent TWO years of his precious life trying to get something that now he doesn't even want? Bull s*&#! Tell him how stupid he's been in the end. But don't do it now. It's probably just better to ignore & not have contact. But in your mind, I'm sure you can see how completely stupid that is!

October 8, 2006
4:24 pm
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SassyAlex
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hurtstobreathe, thanks for your response. I can relate to your name.

He's never tried to make it seem like he doesn't want me. In fact, he's been very eager from day one. He wants me very badly. I guess that's why he's been a big faker, because he wanted me no matter what the cost, even if it meant ignoring the million times I said "don't do this for me, do it for yourself".

Now what that's all about, what that means, I have no idea. That a person is willing to put aside their personal identity in a relationship just to hold on to the other person.

But then I found out he was living his life outside of our relationship exactly the way he wanted to...and completely against what I stand for.

I would say he's diabolical, but I don't want to give him that much credit.

October 8, 2006
4:26 pm
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SassyAlex
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I guess my question for all of this is WHY??? Why would a person go through all this trouble? Why would a person want to hold on to me so badly? Why go through this when he could so obviously be so much more suited with a ton of other women?

The WHYs drive me crazy.

October 8, 2006
4:34 pm
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elizabeth anne
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"If I tell you who I am, you may not like who I am and it is all I have to give" So, perhaps he felt you would not accept him for who he was with the differences between you... So he made you believe he was someone else, so you would be with him... Fearful, to afraid of the consequences... maybe thinking he could be who you wanted him to be... Could be a multitude of reasons...

October 8, 2006
5:35 pm
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Hi again,

About why a liar lies.....of course the reasoning that if he told the truth you'd be upset is an excuse and the justification and it is not the victim's fault. I didn't mean to validate lying, if that is what it sounded like.

I think freaking out or saying That's OK Sweetie are two extremes of the choices a person has for reactions. And that kind of betrayal elicits emotion, no doubt about it.

He lied to you, over and over, and now you are still expecting (at least wishing?) him to come over to the side of truth and admit it. I am able to see some of my own vulnerability in this, too, so please don't think I am somehow blaming the victim in this.

Is it possible that you/I/we (the person lied to) still has some sort of accountability for allowing ourselves to continue to believe?? When is it blinders, gullability or naivity? Purely a question, because it does not sound at all like you are any of those things from what you continued to say to him. BUT, if it was an issue that you kept coming back to and were suspicious of, and he kept lying and saying he really was interested and committed.....

there had to be an awesome payoff for you in the knowledge that he wanted you that badly. Your own dream in having someone totally committed and by your side doing what you believe in is and was huge.

You had a strength and a drive he really wanted.

Like hurts said, he couldn't relate, couldn't do it himself. He has had to lie to cover up this lack within himself his whole life. Like EA said, if he'd allowed you to know the real person you would have walked sooner. Either way, he ended up not being acceptable.

October 8, 2006
5:42 pm
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I'm re-reading my post: by "continue to believe" I meant continue to believe that he is telling the truth, continue to believe in truth ourselves.

October 8, 2006
5:44 pm
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I'll try to get this right AGAIN:

by "continue to believe" I meant continue to believe that he is telling the truth, NOT continue to believe in truth ourselves.

Good grief those little words are important!

October 8, 2006
8:31 pm
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1lost1
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I attracted a liar that continues to hurt me. I let him. And I don't know why.

I am sorry for you and your issue. Liars are hard to predict.

1L1

October 9, 2006
11:53 pm
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SassyAlex
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Everyone has such great input on this. Brynnie, what great points you had...about expecting the liar to now not be lying..that especially hit home. And "Like hurts said, he couldn't relate, couldn't do it himself. He has had to lie to cover up this lack within himself his whole life. Like EA said, if he'd allowed you to know the real person you would have walked sooner." So so true! Thanks!

October 11, 2006
10:15 am
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Brynnie - I can really relate to what you write about expecting a known liar to miraculously open himself up to the truth.

SassyAlex - I have done the same thing with a guy I was seeing!!! I told him again and again - just be straight with me - I can take it! He showed several signs of being unable to commit to me (and any woman at all!), but he also refused to shut the door and let me go. He seemed to want me always standing on the threshold for whenever he was ready... Ugh.

I hope you're feeling better about this - 🙂

October 11, 2006
10:20 am
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P.S. It can really *hurt* to be kept in limbo like that, waiting for a truth that will never be spoken. It was tempting to translate his behavior according to my hopes, but I finally had to tell myself the truth, since he would/could not.

October 11, 2006
10:46 am
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risingfromtheashes
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sassy,

just reading your post here and I can totally understand.

as I found my ex was lying to me, the same question went thru my head - WHY - if he was sacrificing so much and so miserable with me, why lie to me to keep me??? he could have had his clean exit a thousand times over.

For my ex, I know that he doesn't let go easily - he hates goodbyes. So, even if someone is toxic to him, he won't let go.

That was one of the issues I had with him - he wouldn't let go of his ex wife or anyone else from his past - and they got in our way.

He also lied, cuz he was afraid of my outbursts. He also lied, cuz he was covering up for what he "lacked". And he ALSO lied cuz it's all he knew how to do. At the end of the day, if you can't be honest with yourself, who can you be honest with? And he couldn't be honest with himself - so it naturally happened that he couldn't be honest with anyone else.

Frankly, I think that lying was a family "disease" for him, as I caught his mom lying to me as well - in order to make the situation "go away", she told me what I wanted to hear and went to elaborate lengths to make me believe it.

At one point, it drove me so crazy, I was ready to put myself in the hospital cuz I thought I was losing my ever-loving mind.

I remember that day and remember feeling like my higher power came down and "hugged" me - cuz I got a sense of calm and peace that helped me over the hump and led me to where I am today.

I felt like I had "sucker" written across my forehead - and I used to tell him that too. Told him his word meant shit to me and his actions spoke volumes. Problem was, I was telling him his word was shit, but SHOWING him that it was okay to lie to me....cuz I stuck around. So, I trained him that it was okay to lie to me, that I would yell and scream and jump up and down, but then "get over it" until next time.

Now, I make sure my words match my actions and expect the same from my partner.

I look back and question alot of what happened and wonder if those times were lies too - things he did, said and otherwise - maybe there was even more lies than I realize....I truly believe there are.

But the past is past and what's done is done - live and learn - next time, when my gut says he's lying, I will call him on it.

and to show that I did learn - I am dating someone knew and something didn't seem right and I called him on it and we talked about it - and my gut was right....we worked thru it and since them, my "internal alarm" has been silent - I trust him - even tho I have my days where I wonder....I realize that part of it is my own insecurities.

I still wonder "why" - but in the end, there could be a thousand and one reasons why, and it's beyond our understanding. An honest person cannot understand why a compulsive liar lies - it's like a non-drinker understanding why an alcoholic drinks.

October 11, 2006
10:52 am
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risingfromtheashes
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and one more thing - my ex used to come up with FANTASTIC elaborate "stories" - he called them reasons, I called them excuses.

But he seemed to be able to justify everything he did.

and his lies were just unbelievable - and you just had to shake your head in wonder.

as his partner, I believed them, tho my gut screamed not to - and when I would tell others - they would all laugh at me for believing him - but I WANTED to believe him - I didn't want to be a fool, or believe someone who loves me is lying to me.

I think back on some of his stories and boy, there were some good ones!!!! And when I asked for proof on many, you wouldn't believe the lengths he'd go to to dodge that - or the how the stories would grow - or what he would do to prove it.

I remember him telling me he couldn't be with me on xmas eve cuz he hurt his knee and was in the ER. I asked for proof....and kept at it....eventually he gave me a CD with a "copy" of his "bill" - it was so damn fake - he said the girl in the billing department burned the cd for him so he wouldn't lose it....he will tell me TO THIS DAY that he really was in the hospital.....or when his gram was in the hospital - but yet when I called, she wasn't.

anyway, I feel like an ass for believing him - but love is blind - and I can't say I didn't do all I could to love him with all my heart.

I just picked the wrong person to love.

October 11, 2006
11:45 am
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Brynnie (Sorry I didn't read the rest of the posts because something Brynnie said just made me shiver!)

"I was told I was difficult to tell the truth to"

My ex said something very similar to me also...actually made ME feel guilty for him finding it difficult to tell the truth!! Another time he said "You are too good at arguing, I can't get away with anything, you remember dates, times minute details"

I remember laughing and saying "Yeh? Well isn't it a pity I have to be SO on my guard with you"

Do NOT let anyone get away with saying something so obviously abusive to you ever again. Someone who says you are to hard to tell the truth to is nothing but a coward and a fake...simple as that!

And as for always attracting liars? No such thing, you are attracting abusers however, probably because of the old "low self-esteem" I'm always on about...abusers (who usually have low self-esteem too but hide it very well) can sniff this out a mile away.

Anyway, who says just because a liar is attracted to you that you have to be attracted back!

October 11, 2006
12:41 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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my ex used to say "why bother explaining, you won't believe me anyway"....oh boy, does this hit home.

then he'd say "no matter what I say, you believe my word is shit....".

play the guilt card.

looking back, that card didn't work - I think the only thing that did work was the "abandonment" card - not wanting to lose him - and he knew it.

but that issue has been fixed, so I think I stand on better ground this time around.

October 11, 2006
1:22 pm
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lovetocrochet
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I remember my ex husband admitting to me why he learned to lie. His parents always punished him for being honest if they didn't like when he did something that didn't fit their mold. So he lied to avoid being punished and be their good boy.

So it became habit... a horrible one... and one he wasn't able to stop with me. He in turn started making me lie too. He would rehearse with me what I would say, how I would act, and if I slipped up and said what I really thought or felt, there would be hell to pay on the drive home, including kicking me out a couple of times.

During our divorce, he lied IN COURT about just about everything. He denied our daughter had anything wrong with her and tried to argue her behaviors were because I was a bad mother, not from autism. Thank God the judge ordered a court psych eval where the shrink agreed our daughter should live with me and she had the courts mandate testing that finally got her diagnosed.

He lied in court again when I filed for a restraining order. We got put in conjoint counseling instead because of his lies. He lied to the counselor, said I'd broken into his house and was faxing stuff to his coworkers to leave on his desk, none of it true. I was so beaten down half the time I was yelling at him to stop lying and stop this crap.

Finally the counselor did say to him, when are you going to stop this abuse? Her story has remained consistent, she did NOT do these things no matter how much you accuse her. You've interrogated her, I've questioned her. How much are you going to keep doing this? We keep going one step forward and two steps back because of what YOU are doing.

The day the counselor said that, he stopped. Someone in a position of authority finally called him on his BS.

Today I still think he lies about some things, sometimes so much that he doesn't even know what the truth is for himself anymore. I will always hold him at an arm's length and with suspicion over everything he says unless and until he proves it with his actions. That's a consequence he earned. He is good to our daughter, though albeit a little more controlling with some things than I'd like. But I do think he's learned lying chronically isn't going to work anymore for him like it used to.

It doesn't matter to me anymore why he lies, if he still does. I drove myself crazy for years trying to figure that out, until I realized it doesn't make any difference whether an explanation can make it all rational or not. It still won't change anything, it still wouldn't make him stop lying, and I wouldn't feel any better.

All that's important to me now is being aware that he is what he is, and responding accordingly. That and praying. A lot. After all my daughter has to live with this even if I don't anymore.

October 11, 2006
1:33 pm
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lovetocrochet - your words are wise about letting go of a need to know why and accepting a liar as a liar ...

But it's so painful right now! I don't see why he doesn't take the path of truth and set both of us free...

I cannot tell if he still wants me partly under his spell or if he is just cowardly...

I guess I may never know. And neither option is pretty. I have to accept that as well as the mystery.

October 12, 2006
2:18 am
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SassyAlex
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Thanks so much to everyone for their input. Risingfromtheashes...what you say really hits home. My ex recently said to me, why should I bother explaining things to you, you think I'm lying anyway. Exactly what you said. (Gee I wonder why I think he's lying, I've caught him in so many in the past.) If someone I loved thought I was lying and I WAS NOT, I would move heaven and earth to make them see I wasn't. I guess for these people, they know they're lying, then we tell them we know they are, and they have no defense. I guess. I have no idea because I live my life so differently, I just cannot understand.

October 12, 2006
7:16 am
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risingfromtheashes
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sassy,

if they told the truth, they would have to admit they lied - and while they don't want to admit they lied to us, they dont' want to admit to THEMSELVES they lied.

See, they don't look in the mirror - they can't.....I confronted my ex about this - and one day he even admitted he couldn't.....I said to him one day - I know why you don't shave all the time - you can't stand looking in the mirror. And there is truth in that.

They know what's going on, but the lies upon lies have compounded until they realize they dug a horrible ditch for themselves and if they admit one, then it will snowball and that would destroy them.

It's not like you or me admitting a white lie - this is their LIFE that would unravel - cuz their WHOLE life is a lie - right down to who they believe they are and how they feel about themselves.

Their lies are what they hold on to - it's all that keeps them afloat - if they have holes poked into their "life raft" - they'll sink - fast.

I, too, would move heaven and earth to prove I wasn't lying. And I gave my ex PLENTY of opportunities to prove it - and he would say he'd prove it, then he wouldn't. He couldn't. And maybe at times he could - but if he proved it once, then he knew I would expect it all the time - so he figured he wouldn't open that can of worms and just set a pattern of not proving anything.

When he cheated on me, his other woman had PLENTY of proof - and was more than willing to share it with me. And that drove him INSANE - and boy the stories he told to refute that evidence....but in the end, talk is cheap.

As I said, I asked for a copy of his doctor bill, his ID bracelet, discharge papers - something.....and months later, I got some kind of "word" document - that wasn't legitamite - had no letterhead, wasn't in standard hospital format or code - nothing.....it took so long to get it, and then to have it appear bogus - and then - to top it all of - the hospital said that bill had been paid by insurance - and he was out of work at the time, and had no insurance, so the claim number he used on it was an old one - he copied an old bill!!!

Anyway, bottom line is we can't grasp why they do it, nor can we change it....their whole lives are built on this and they don't know how to stop, nor can they see why they should....it works for them and who is it harming? At least in their mind.

Everyone lives differently, and like I said, just like we can't understand why a person would use pot, drugs, alcohol or hit someone - we can't understand why someone would lie either.

we were brought up differently - we have a different set of standards.

And we have to accept that they are who they are - and won't change. And the question is - do we "let them go", so we can retain our sanity - or do we accept they are liars and do our best to keep them in our lives - and just know we can't trust them? I know I tried to keep him in my life - but it was just too damn hard.....without trust, you got nothing.

October 12, 2006
7:44 am
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I've attracted a lifetime of liars. The only way to avoid the pain is to leave the liar. Once a habitual liar or even pathalogical liar, it is really the only way. The pain will fade. Of course remembering how that person lied to you will always remain. Don't accept it or you will never be able to trust someone else that won't lie to you. Wasting your life waiting around and mulling over pain of being lied to or not trusting is only hurting yourself and that time should be spent having to learn about yourself, what you need and what you are all about. Sometimes it is painful to learn about yourself but it is the only way to grow. And you only have one life so don't waste it on a liar.

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