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March 23, 2004
1:19 am
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Murphy
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I'm new to this- and am writing because I'm at my wits end trying to find what I'm looking for. Hopefully someone out there will be able to tell me what I need to know.
Long story short-
About a year ago I found out my husband of 12 years had been molesting our daughter secretly for about 3 years. When she told, I called the police, he's since been sentenced to prison, and my children and I have been in counseling since. It's been quite a journey- not at all pleasent most of the time, but we're making it. I have filed for divorce- still waiting for that. OK- but my question is this--- does anyone know where/how to get counseling in prison? My soon to be ex will not have any counseling until he's released in 14 years. This question is not so much for him as it is for the day the children will be able to see him (if they choose- at 18). As for him- he was also abused as a child and I just feel therapy is important. It may not do anything for him, but I'm feeling the need to do this. You may all think I'm crazy for even asking, but please, if you know of anything, please post.
Thanks-

March 23, 2004
1:35 am
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deehmah
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Hi Murphy - what an awful thing to go through - I can't imagine the hurt, anger and betrayal you must feel. It sounds like you are doing all the right things to protect you and your children. And that's what should be foremost in your mind. I do understand your concerns about when your husband is finally released from prison and how your children will handle it. The bottom line is that he has to want to do it for himself. I don't know much about the prison system but here in Massachusetts, I believe that counseling and programs relating to being a pedophile are mandatory. Most sex offenders are placed in special prisons that are especially set up for those issues. And when they are released, they are placed on a sex offenders registry and must continue counseling for many more years. I find it hard to believe that he will get no counseling at all. How do you know this to be true? But actually, that is not your problem. Your concern should be you and making your children healthy. Giving them the groundwork so they can make intelligent choices when the time finally comes that he's released. You are falling into the codependent behavior that plagues us all - wanting to fix everything and everyone. And you can't. He's a grown man who has to make his own decisions. It's hard to just let go of someone you spent 12 years with and had children with. But after what he's done, your attention needs to be on you and your children and preparing them for the future, no matter what he decides to do. Good luck.
dee

March 23, 2004
2:01 am
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Zinnie
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Hi Murphy,

The very problem that you are dealing with is what brought me to this board to begin with, if you like, I can elaborate further, or direct you to some threads to read.

First and foremost - and please understand something that I'm going to say. When this happened to me, I was essentially clouded in ignorance - hence my journey to this board. My way of dealing with things that life hurls my way is research. Research, and then... more research.

It sounds as if you still have some contact with your ex - because of the children, and I can only guess as to the bull he is feeding you. He is not receiving counseling in prison? Sorry - that is a no go. It is MANDATORY for them to receive sex offender counseling while incarcerated if they want to get out on parole/probation. Now, he can reject the counseling, but it will go as a black mark against him. So, I'm guessing this is what he is feeding you, hoping for empathy/sympathy from you.

Normally, I would never want to see a child kept from their father. But, in the case of abuse, keep them away - as much as possible. The children have the right to decide if they want to see him when he gets out, it's THEIR call. Not his, he lost those rights when he begin molesting them. I am here to tell you, and the studies will back this up - sadly, there is NO rehabilitation for a pedophile. They say that for every child they have been caught with, there have been 12 to 15 others that they have molested.

The big thing that they scream is "well, I was molested too as a child, so I don't know any better." Sounds logical. Right. Any one with an ounce of common sense knows better, and any one with a shred of dignity would not do the same horrible things to a child that happened to them.

The next sound you hear from him will be that he has found God. That is their other big "scheme." When I rec'd the letter from prison asking me to send what began as $100.00, then by the end of the letter almost $900.00, I called the prison myself to talk to the case worker. I asked her why does he need this money? She says "what is the name, where is he at?" So, I give her the name and unit number - um... her reply at that time "he is in the God Pod with all the other sex offenders." Why do they go there? Because even if prison there is honor among thieves.

These men that are in there - they are bad men, some down right evil. They are thieves, arsonists, embezzelers, and murderers. But, they have Mothers, wives, girlfriends, and most importantly they have children. They look at these people as the lowest of the low, because that is what they are.

Honey, you did the right thing - you left him, you reported him and he is in prison. Keep doing the right thing - keep your kids away from him. Don't pass on any pathetic letters that he sends them - actually keep them for evidence because he will continue to attempt molesting them from prison, pass them on to the D.A. if needed. Get the kids counseling for their well being.

You have my utmost respect for doing the right thing by your children.

Take care of yourself.

Zinnie

March 24, 2004
1:01 am
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Murphy
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Thank you both for responding.
I know he will have no treatment until he's released. I know this from the DA and his family (who have not condoned what he's done and have been supportive to me and the children). Here in Oregon there are no such programs (for sex offenders)while in prison. He will have extreme post prison supervision/sex offender treatment once released. That's a long time to sit in prison not "getting" what you've done or why you're there. He does not get it.
I have really no contact with him, nor do the children (even if I wanted them to they can not). I have focused and continue to focus on the well being of my children, but feel the system is flawed. There are many things I could go into to- everything from the victim to the offender. Things I'd like to see changed. I struggle with this constantly (go figure!). Dee- what you said about codependence really struck a chord with me. My counselor has said that I am codependent. My problem is that I don't know how helping is wrong. And Zinnie- I know the people in the prisons are bad to evil- but I also know there's no "tools" being given, either. At least not here. I, too, have to research and research. I was also in a cloud of ignorance. But now that the cloud is lifting I don't like what I see. What I know. And I feel something has to be changed. I don't feel it's my place in the position I'm in to advocate for him, but who will? Who makes the changes in the system that need to be changed? I don't know why I want him to get help, but I do. Not from me- from a professional. And I'm not finding one.
Anyway, thanks again-

March 24, 2004
1:58 am
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deehmah
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Murphy - I do understand what you are saying. I really do. The prison system is a very unfair system and doesn't do much as far as rehabilitating people to lead productive lives. I have some very conflicting views on it. On one hand, I read about the people who are found innocent with the advent of DNA testing, after spending years in prison. And I feel badly. However, in reading further into the story, most of these people had criminal backgrounds to begin with which put them in a position to be known to the police. And when you look at the percentage of people wrongly imprisoned versus the amount of people in prison that are actually guilty - well, the balance is way off. What, 6 or 7 a year found innocent versus thousands and thousands locked up? In the service, they call that collateral damage, I believe. Not something we like but something necessary to keep the system going, a few deaths for the benefit of the masses. Then, on the other hand, we have murderers and rapists that slip through the cracks, wind up on the streets (or are never taken off the streets) and committ another crime. Then the public is in an uproar. Just a few months ago, here in Massachusetts, a sex offender who should have been registered and living at a certain address, moved to a new neighborhood without anyones knowledge. He was supposed to check in daily with a p.o. Well, he broke into a womans home and raped and stabbed to death the mother and the 12 year old daughter. When I read things like this, I want to see chain gangs, hard labor, cells with a pot and a cement slab. My blood pressure goes sky high when I read about the computers and college programs and fancy gyms, these people are given. Murphy, look at why now, at this time, you decide you need to advocate for prison reform and prisonners rights. You can't do that and give your children everything they need. Your husband made choices. He must live with them. It's his cross to bear he has to advocate for himself. You are not his mother or his savior. Don't divide your energies between him and your children. I'm sorry to be harsh, but he is scum and deserves absolutely nothing from you. Not even your thoughts. If your children see you fighting for him in any way, they will get very mixed messages from you which will add to their confusion. And the guilt they probably feel. You need to be THEIR advocate. Let someone else worry about the prisons. The last thing you want if for them to feel some kind of guilt and responsibility for what happened which is what you might be telling them by involving yourself in this cause. Please think about it. I know it's not easy and I wish you strength and luck. I honestly don't know what I would do in your situation.
dee

March 24, 2004
2:19 am
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Zinnie
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Murphy,

Why are you wanting to get him help? Well - you were married to him, you at one time loved him, and you are human.

What have you found out as far as researching this help for him in prison? I'm not doubting you - just finding it hard to believe that something that is so mandatory in other states would not be there. But, each state is different.

If you really want him to receive counseling, you can contact one of the prison ministry's to do an outreach, there are a lot of them, and if you like I can put you in touch with Deacon John, a man that I have met that does this specifically. He can point you in the right direction there in Oregon if you like. We can pass the information through Site Coordinator here. But, be warned - he will pull the "saved by God" card. They always do.

You know Murphy - I will tell you something. When all of this was going on with my cousin, something that came out was that he had affairs with three of his sister-in-laws. Well, HE termed them affairs, they had another word for them - rape. There were lots of dynamics going on, and again, I will be happy to elaborate, or pull up my old thread for you to read. But, the thing of it was, these girls were children when this happened. They were 12 and 13 years old. He keeps saying over and over and over again "but it was consensual" - I kept telling him "they were minors" two people looking at the same thing, with two very different views. So, I do understand what you are saying when you say "he doesn't get it." Trust me - neither does my cousin. The problem is? They never will.

Also Murphy, let me give you a little background about me, so you will understand that I'm not completely coming from left field. My original degree was going to be in Child Pyschology, emphasizing on children who were already in trouble, but could possibly be reached. There is a huge part of me that felt that so many in our prisons could be helped - and who knows, there are some that can be, that I won't deny. But, this was dealing with young people - and it was so obvious that there were people out there who no matter what, were just going to do bad things, no matter how many chances, tools, savings from God, Jesus, Mohammed and Buddah, amount of money, whatever they were given. I reached a burn out, and decided this was not the field for me.

But, you know what? I still felt for so many of them. Really I did. Well, fast forward to three years ago. My cousin, someone I grew up with, loved and respected is arrested. We spend thousands of dollars making sure he had money on the books, researching, phone calls, flights out there to handle things for him, etc. He conned me. He did it, and it was sick, and much worse than I ever thought possible. Proof? After conviction, I packed up what legal documents were left in NM and shipped them to TX, where I am. I was going through them, and 16 years ago he was in deep trouble with the Marine Corp. He was told to go to counseling. He went. He ADMITTED to having sex with his sisters from the time they were 8 to 15 or so, when he left home.

Fast forward another year. My daughter was coming home from shopping with my grand-daughter in the back seat, strapped into her baby seat. She was hit by a drunk driver. Who had spent the last 20 years in and out of jail for DUI, and DWI's. But, went and did it again. Fast forward to the next month. Only a month. My other daughter, was brutally attacked by her ex-boyfriend, and two of his sick friends. One of whom was killed yesterday in prison. This gem of a man? After conviction and upon DNA testing - was implicated in seven other rapes.

I know what you are saying about wanting to help people, believe me, I do. I do too. But, a predator is a predator - and honey, they love finding folks just like you and I who think we are doing the right thing.

Keep yourself and your children safe - I will keep you all in my prayers.

Love,

Zinnie

March 24, 2004
10:48 pm
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Murphy
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Thanks again for your responses. I think I'll check this board out for a while. Haven't been on line in months and this seems like a good place to start.

March 24, 2004
10:59 pm
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Murphy
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Reading through some posts---

Zinnie, it sounds like you've had more than your fair share dealt. It puts things in perspective a bit for me. Hang in there- sounds like you've had some long nights recently. You'll be in my prayers.

And Dee, thanks again-

March 24, 2004
11:15 pm
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Sam7
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Protect your children, pray really hard, and give them the tools to leave their father in the past so he can't manipulate them in the future. The last thing THEY need is a dad coming out of prison saying he's reformed and messing with them again, or god forbid, any grandchildren. I am so impressed that you have done the things you have done. Best of luck in the future. And make sure you take care of yourself too. You deserve it.

March 24, 2004
11:44 pm
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Murphy
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Thanks Sam! 🙂

March 25, 2004
1:35 am
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deehmah
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Murphy - you sound like a very strong woman. You'll make it. And your kids will make it too, because of you.
dee

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