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An update.....Lolli
October 9, 2006
12:38 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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lolli,

cry if you need to.

what is wrong is that you want something you can't have.

why?

cuz you put so much effort into it, that it's hard to walk away and admit defeat.

AND

you have somehow been "programmed" to believe that you need to "earn" or "win" love - not get handed it.

It seems to easy with ex-ex - so it's not attractive.

Snow makes you jump thru hoops and on some levels, if you do that, you feel like you have earned it.

Also - you don't want to feel rejected - and snow is rejecting you. What's wrong with lolli? why doesn't snow want her?

I'll tell you - NOTHING is wrong with lolli - EVERYTHING is wrong with snow.

And that's why ex-ex loves you - cuz he sees the great changes, and wants you - just like you recognize the same in him.

So, you don't want to lose, you don't want to feel rejected and you feel like you need to "win" or earn love....I'm sure there are more reasons, but in the end, remember what you told me - love is NOT supposed to be hard work - it's supposed to come easily and naturally.

October 9, 2006
12:50 pm
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lollipop3
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Thank you Rising.

I swear to God...if I let the ex-ex go and end up with another idiot.

I deserve everything I get.

October 9, 2006
12:53 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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so work on letting go of snow.

and just keep working on your friendship with ex-ex.

I don't think ex-ex is going anywhere, and I don't think you would be stupid enough to end up with another idiot.

I do think you still have unresolved "stuff" with snow....but in time, that will get easier - keep going to therapy.

You deserve total and utter happiness....and perhaps that will come with ex-ex in time, and perhaps it will be with someone else.

don't lose hope - don't jump into things with ex-ex, and just keep doing what you are doing.....either you will end up with a truly wonderful friend, and find a real boyfriend, or things with ex-ex will evolve at it's own natural pace - something you are comfortable with.

October 9, 2006
2:18 pm
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Lolli: Ex ex is laying out everything you've ever wanted on a silver platter. It doesn't mean you have to take it though- at least right now. I think the house thing is causing you to pressure yourself- seeing all of that- knowing its what you want- he's just sweetening the pot. And thats what men are supposed to do, right? - be providers, love their woman, treat her like a queen.

It also means that if you accept what he is offering, it is the final goodbye to Snoblo. And you're obviously not ready for that. As hard as you've tried, you're not there yet. And how can you be- he lives downstairs!!!! He won't go away. I think he knows there will always be some hope of reconciliation if he stays there- he knows you aren't done yet.

IF, and I mean IF, you decide to make a go of it w/ ex ex, I think there needs to be a transition period. I don't think it would be a good idea to just move into his house, although tempting. I think you need a real romance period (even though that IS what he's doing now) but I mean a time when you are a committed couple- before you make the final move. A time when you are giving back to him what he is giving to you. Completely free of Snoblo- so that he knows you are completely his- and not still just running from Snoblo. He deserves that total emotional committment from you if you decide to give in.

((((Lolli))))

SD

October 9, 2006
5:43 pm
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Shaney
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Oh lolli...

Just because there are some delicious carrots dangling in front of you, doesn't mean that you have to eat them, my little bunny. :o)

Quit putting so much pressure on yourself. You seem to be feeling that, if you don't give in to this opportuniy, you're never going to have it again. The reality, is that you will have it again, and with someone that you WANT to have it with. If it was truly right for you, you'd jump in with both feet.

Plus, although you've done great over the last few months, it's still not enough time to jump into something else. You're not over Snoblo - which is fine. It's going to take more time, unfortunately. But hey... that's okay. All of your questions about what you want, and with whom, will become more clear with time.

You and exex have served a wonderful purpose for eachother. You've been there for eachother, as loving and caring friends. How lucky the both of you are. Rejoice in that for the time being, and let things take their natural course. All of the carrots are nice, lolli, but timing (your timing) still plays a huge role in this. If you end up loving the hell out of exex at some point, the carrots will come. Those carrots, although they may be different from the current ones, will complete your list of wants and needs to the same extent, even more. The right feelings for someone, will make any carrot seem delicious :o).

Snoblow didn't have carrots. All he has is this scary car that just stares at you. NOT a good carrot.

October 9, 2006
6:14 pm
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hey lolli...

I can so relate to the questions you are asking: "what is my problem???????????? Why am I so anxious????? Why can't I let go of the Snowblower?"

And you have written quite a few times that you fear letting exex slip through your fingers and choosing instead to get together with some completely inferior specimen.

Could it be that our culture's myths are ganging up on you, to the soundtrack of that ol' ticking biological clock?

My counsellor used to tell me that a sense of urgency about things was a red flag inviting deeper reflection, not necessarily quicker action.

You've been conscious of how much growth you've made these last few months... but you still seem to be really afraid of making a bad choice. What do you think that's about?

I have confidence in you :0)

yours as always, kroika

October 9, 2006
6:20 pm
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elizabeth anne
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There is probably still pain in really accepting it can be totally over with Snowblower... We know in our head with enought NC the reality is that they cannot give us what we need... Yet, I think there are strong surges that want to rebell against that... maybe because there was something there at one time, that we didn/t feel with anyone else..

When those surges for me come on... I think to myself, it will only be a brief gratification just for that security of knowing we are together again... Then deep in my heart I think where will it end... Me, going thru more pain, me trying to fix something that is broken... and if it did come to reality... I would most likely recognize the same patterns and would most likely regret that instant gratification and then I am back to square one again....

Sometimes I hate that I had to fall for someone that cannot give me what I need.... That doesn/t know what love really is... So all I can do is have empathy for him and hope one day he can fix himself. But he has to want it for himself.. I am not enough to change him... So, I can not fall back into a loveless relationship, it is not good for my soul.. it will only cause me more pain... and I think you know in your heart it would be the same....

October 9, 2006
6:58 pm
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lollipop3
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Hi Everyone and as always, thank you all for your thoughtful posts.

Jeez, everytime I think I've gotten passed this crap huh?

After a bit of a crying jag....I'm feeling better than I did this morning. At least the anxiety has subsided somewhat.

I spoke to my sister for a while and she helped to put things back into perspective a little bit. I think a lot of my problem today is that this week has been such an emotional rollercoaster. I was actually doing quite well and the ex-ex was even beginning to grow on me some until this whole thing happened with Snow this week. The store clerk coming to my store, Snow lying about the card, has he met someone, maybe he hasn't and still loves me, him busting my balls and the reality that nothing has changed.

And with all this is going on, I am trying to deal with my feelings and work through them, all the while with the ex-ex in the forefront and me not wanting to push him away. I feel like I am juggling my life, my happiness, my feelings, my sadness.....and I just can't keep all the balls in the air anymore.

As usual I am overanalyzing everything waiting for some sort of guarentee that I am going to make the right decision. As to Kroika's question....what is that about? I don't know. But I will take the suggestion of deeper inflection and hope that I can sort it out.

In the meantime...I will take the very suggestion I have given to others which is....sometimes the best decision is no decision. I am certainly not in the state of mind to make any type of logical or productive decision so instead, for this week at least...I am going to concentrate on my school work and take some "lolli" time.

Thank you all so much for your support.

October 10, 2006
2:00 pm
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2bstrong
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Oh lolli...

I haven't read this whole thread, but I read your first post...and then the "anxiety" post...

I feel the same way that you do. I turn it on myself too, and ask myself "what is wrong with YOU?!?".

I've been dating Harley for eight months. He's kind, thoughtful, romantic, hard-working, a good father, he's not perfect, I don't want to paint that picture--but he has been pretty good to me. I pick on him...I tell my friends that I'm not attracted to him--and so when he wants to be romantic...I try to push him away. When I let my guard down, and let him get close to me...I feel ok. I try to talk myself out of liking him. The bottom line is, I like him, and it frightens me. Harley and I are on the verge of ending the relationship. We have both been ambivalent at times, and it's taken its toll.

I am still holding on to Dr. Boobies...I am waiting for him to contact me. I feel stupid about that. I haven't contacted him...but I think of him a lot. It's out there, and it keeps me from committing to anyone else.

As if I weren't feeling crappy enough: I drove by ex-ex's house yesterday on my way to a Dr. appt. It has been more than a year since I've been there. His house was beautiful...the mailbox was painted, the house was newly painted. There were flowers in pots everywhere...he had a halloween display with scarecrow in the front yard...it looked like a woman's touch. I was shocked. Life has gone on for him...and it looks like it's improved without me. Ugh. Word of advice to everyone: what you don't know doesn't hurt you.

Sorry to hijack your thread lolli. You are not alone...What does it take for us to change? To grow...?

October 10, 2006
2:11 pm
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lollipop3
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(((2bstrong))),

I'm sorry that you are struggling with this as well.

You said that you are trying to talk yourself OUT of a relationship with Harley? I am not sure but I think I am doing the opposite by trying to talk myself INTO a relationship with the ex-ex. I'm not sure. I don't know if it is that I am not over the Snowblower yet or if the reason is that the ex-ex is just not the one for me.

How do I know?

I don't know how to change. Sometimes I don't know what I am supposed to be trying to change.

I keep telling myself that when it is right....I will know. But everytime I think it is right...it ends up being wrong.

I am so afraid to make the wrong decision.....again.

October 10, 2006
2:16 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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all I can say lolli is that you should stop stressing over the future and focus on "this moment".

if you want to go someplace with ex-ex - go - if you don't, then don't go - and don't worry about how it "looks" to anyone - including yourself.

Enjoy yourself - enjoy your moments - enjoy the peacefulness and happiness you are feeling.

and don't worry about making a decision until you feel the time is right to make it.

you have a therapist - use her to help you get to the point that you are confident with your decisions....she can't give you the answers, but she can help teach you how to be confident in the answers you come up with.

one day at a time - remember?

October 10, 2006
2:22 pm
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lollipop3
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Hi Rising,

Speaking of my therapist......I had to cancel my last appointment on Sept.26th and haven't seen her since.

I really do need to reschedule that appointment.

And yes, I do need to get back to "one day at a time".

This whole mess is all about the timing. I really wish that I had gained a bit more distance from the Snowblower before the ex-ex reappeared. Like I said...I feel like, emotionally, I am trying to handle too much. I am trying to work through my feelings about Snow without completely shutting out the ex-ex...and it's hard.

Then again...if not for the ex-ex...I may not have gained ANY distance from the Snowblower.

Sigh.....

Why can't anything ever be easy?

October 10, 2006
2:25 pm
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Dearest lolli...I must confess...at the same time I'm trying to talk myself out of it...I am trying to talk myself into it! Ha ha. Does that mean, as someone said above, that it just isn't the right time? I worry so much about being alone; about not meeting a man that I will like.

Some also said something about hope...TC has gone through this with FF. We are connected or engaged with the ex's just enough to keep us hoping. I know that I am, anyway. Letting go of hope means WE have made the decision to walk away, to end it. I find that immobilizing, usually. I don't like ending things...I am not good at letting go of hope.

I know what you mean about the fear of making the wrong decision, Lolli. That is probably why I have never been married. I remember in previous threads when we would all discuss why we stayed with someone, even though it wasn't the best situation for us...it's that fear thing again...fear that we won't find something better...or at the very least, feel better ourselves.

Maybe what we really need is courage?

I wrote Harley a heart-felt letter today...I am very curious to see how he responds. I have been pretty aloof and mysterious, and very guarded these past eight months.

October 10, 2006
2:36 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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lolli,

if ex-ex hadn't appeared, I wonder if you would be this far away from snow this time....how bad the tailspin may have been when the whole "is he home, is he dating, did he send me a card" bullcrap went on.

Instead, you were too busy to have time to obsess about it.

ex-ex has kept you occupied, busy, engaged and having fun - so snow is the last thought on your mind.

and that's a good thing.

timing is never perfect - but if you realize that your higher power is at work - and he/she/it has a plan for you - and while it may not feel right or seem right or make sense - it IS a good one.

so, instead of trying to figure it all out, let it play out.

October 10, 2006
2:41 pm
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Lolli,

I feel for you. I really do. I understand your confusion and can see how tempting it is to jump into a relationship with someone who is offering you everything you SAY you want. It should be a no-brainer, right?? I'll share my thoughts on it. Among the long list of the things we want (trust, security, emotional and financial stability, respect, marriage, children, a home, communication, interest, willingness to compromise, friendship, etc)... there is something else... It is sometimes called chemistry, sometimes it's called a "spark" and sometimes, it's just plain old passion. Whatever it is... I know that it can not be forced. It's either there or it's not. If you don't feel like jumping ex-ex's bones every time you are alone together, then I would venture to guess that it's just not there. Is that something you can live without??

I know that I can't. It's possible that ex-ex is just meant to be your very best friend. Nothing more and nothing less.

You are not over Snoblo... BUT I have a feeling that if someone came along that knocked your little lolli-socks off, you'd say "Snoblower who?" Sometimes we cling to the last LOVE that we felt until we feel it again. I know that's what I am doing with FF. I have no doubt that I'll be totally over him once I feel that "feeling" again.

Does that make sense??

TC

October 10, 2006
2:46 pm
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TC!

Did you get a vibe that your name was being invoked?!

This is so profound: **Sometimes we cling to the last LOVE that we felt until we feel it again.**

That explains a lot of our behavior patterns. I'm the poster-child for clinging to last love...I am still checking up on ex-ex...

How are things with ol' FF? Is he still dancin'?

October 10, 2006
3:07 pm
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You must have mentioned me while I was frantically typing my post!!! That is soooo funny!! YOU must have felt MY presence!!!

Anyway... Yes, FF is still doing the FF-two step-boogie! I'd love to catch you up to date but I've got to run right now. I've got to get home, get the kids' off the bus, get my daughter to CCD... take my son to an acting class, then pick them both up, make dinner, get their homework done... ALL while singing my theme song (I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan... cuz I'm a WOMAN!!!!! lala!!)... Life is really busy right now and I'm leaving for vacation in two days!!!!

Me and the children are going to Disney World for 3 days and then on a 4 night Disney cruise of the Bahamas!!!! I can't wait.... FF WHO??????????

I'll check in later, guys!!!

Hang in there!!

Love ya!

TC

October 10, 2006
5:41 pm
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lollipop3
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TC....How are ya girlfriend? I miss you 'round here.

You are right...there is no "spark".

You ask if I can live without that. I don't think I could, or would WANT to live without that. But the question I ask myself is WHY is it not there?

It was certainly there years ago when he was emotionally unavailable.

He looks the same. He carries himself the same. His confidence is the same. The only difference is that now is he emotionally available and willing to give me what I say I need. So I ask again....Why is the spark NOT there now that he IS emotionally available?

Is he not the one....or am I just addicted to drama and I'm just not interested unless it is a challenge?

Will chemistry develop in time if I give it chance? Or should I just chalk it up to "he's not the one" and wait until I find someone with all the "spark" and more than likely....nothing else.

Therein lies the dilema.

October 10, 2006
6:19 pm
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Lolli,

I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit here!!! You are assuming that you are not interested in/attracted to him because he is healthy, emotionally available, etc...and you feel like maybe you require drama? Well, I disagree.

Yes, he has changed but so have you, my friend! You have grown and matured. You were attracted to him then because you were young, impulsive and loved the danger that came along with his lifestyle at the time. If he were the "new & improved" ex-ex then, would you have had such a strong attraction to him? Probably not. You both found what you needed AT THE TIME in each other. Was it the healthiest of relationships? Not really, but it led you to the next phase of your lives. You grew!!!

Then, you got sober. You met Snoblower. You fell in love. Lived a whole new drama... So did ex-ex.

You've both grown in different ways. Just because you are both healthy and supposedly PERFECT in every possible way that matters (meaning you both fill all of the requirements on each other's "what I want in a lover" checklist) does not mean that you are PERFECT FOR EACH OTHER. The chemistry is not there. If he wasn't such a challenge back in the day... there probably wouldn't have been chemistry then either. I don't know why... but I don't buy for one second that it's because you require the drama of an emotionally un-available man!!! I just think that "romantically"... he may not be the one for you.

It's OK. It doesn't make you wrong or him bad. It just IS!

TC

October 10, 2006
7:24 pm
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No hijacking meant, here, but OH MY GOODNESS, TC!!!

You are just filled with pearls of wisdom today! I see myself in much of your posts.

Must be that upcoming faboo vacation you are going on so shortly!

You are almost beating SD going to Injah!

H-gal

P.S. Hiya Lolli and 2B! 2B, you and I are similar. Me, too, never married..trying to emotionally cut all ties with ex!

October 10, 2006
9:16 pm
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H-gal!!! Aloha!!!

I'm glad you found some pearls of wisdom in my words... I try to only speak when I have something to say!!! I'm kidding but honestly, I haven't posted much because I've felt like the "wisdom well" has been pretty dry lately.

I am running around like a crazy person with my children (school, sports, extra-curricular activities), my job, some on-line insurance classes that I'm taking for my job, housework, yardwork, vacation planning, packing...plus I started a new home-based business which is going to be exciting once I get up and running but right now, it's just downright overwhelming.

I don't feel like I have a lot to offer here sometimes, so I stay quiet. I read the dating/sex threads and although I am single (divorced)... I honestly have zero interest in finding love right now. ZERO! I'm totally serious. The thought of it makes me sweat!!!! I think this is the first time in my entire life that I've just been OK with ME. I like me. I love my children, my home, my friends... everything. I don't feel like anything is missing at all. This might be a bad thing because someday I may end up being the crazy cat lady who lives down the road with her shades drawn, with no human interaction except for the sales clerk during the occasional trip to the Walmart to get more kitty litter!!! YIKES!!!!

Oh boy... have I gotten off track or what???? Sorry, Lolli!!!! Back to you.... Tell us how you feel about CATS??????

TC

October 10, 2006
10:10 pm
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Honolulugal
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Well, geez, TC, look at all you've got!? You're all filled up and don't need a thing. Utterly self sufficient. I don't mean that you "need" love or to date. It's just that if you were single, no kids, just friends and a job, you might find the whole thing more appetizing.

It's really hard for me after 12 years of being in one relationship or another.

Really tryin' out that saddle to see if it's time to get back in it, though! Thanks so much for writing. You are such a comfort....

October 10, 2006
10:18 pm
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elizabeth anne
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Lolli

I had an ex ex pursue me after many years... He was my first love and I thought I would never get over him... The distance over time, made me realize he was a memory of love in a different time and place... and I just did not feel the same about him anymore... It was sad because he still had feelings and perhaps it was a feeling of memories of so many years ago... Only I could not continue as I still had feelings for ex....

I realized I could not get that feeling back with ex ex...

I can tell you.. I was never so devistated as to the first time ex and I broke up... I never in my life had to resort to AD to function normally.. My world was shattered and I experienced what I hope I never have to experience again....

I think there are certain people in our lives that affect us more deeply than others... Why??? when we know they are not good for us... Yet, we still can/t let go... A stronger attachment... I thought perhaps I was becoming unhealthy because of the pain of seperation, and then the elation of our first getting back together... Such a rollercoaster ride.. I would ride out the pain knowing how much we would feel that high of getting back together and how good that would be...a brief moment of happiness and a long time of pain... I got tired of the pain...

I know my ex is addicted to the drama because of his upbringing... Being in a healthy realtionship to him is to boring... He needs to be needed in a way that is so dramatic..( her getting arrested, whatever) She makes him feel needed... Then, eventually he can/t take her controlling attitude... He will make the same mistakes over and over...

I could also make the same mistakes by taking him back when he realizes once again he was so naive to manipulation...

I think because Snowblower came back into your life by talking to him, as bizzare as his anticts was... It has now put you back to square one.... I think really the only way to get over some one is to have NC... but due to your circumstances that becomes very difficult... Just remember, you know he can not give you what you need or want... and as much as you want ex ex to give you what you want... the feeling of being in love, chemistry may not be there as much as you would like it to be....

Sucks that the one we want the most is the one that breaks our hearts most and is probably the most destructive to our well being... Hugs...

October 10, 2006
10:34 pm
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hi h-gal...funny how great minds think alike! I have had such difficulty getting over double-x. I "GLOM" on to him when I am having difficulties or sadness in my new life. I was flip-flopping when I was with him, and now, I sometimes say I would give anything to have it back. Yesterday was not good for me. I had no willpower--his house was gorgeous...all the things I thought we would/should do with the house were done. Flowers in beautiful flower pots...I think a woman's touch. I often wonder, if at this age (I'm 43) is is ever possible to move on? To recover? Is is "forever"? The scar, that is?

I would love to be in love, to be free of reminiscing...I don't think I know how, though.

I'm meeting Harley tomorrow night...to end the relationship, and find some closure. He is willing to meet, and that is new to me. He's not being dramatic, and neither am I--which is also new.

TC! I am so glad for you--I hope you have a wonderful vacation...thank you for your wise perspective...You have a gift of clarification.

Thank you miss lolli for letting us all talk here, too. Thank goodness for all of you...--2b

October 12, 2006
6:32 pm
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I don't have a whole lot of time to write because I have to leave for school but I do have to say.....I'm really beginning to dislike people in general and men specifically.

I am so...sick...and..tired...of PEOPLE and MEN specifically CONTINUOUSLY putting me in the position to have conversations that I don't want to have and that make me uncomfortable.

I am so...sick...and...tired....of constantly having to be on guard, constantly having to defend myself, constantly having to repeat myself, etc.etc.etc.

One of these days...I swear to GOD...I am going to FREAK...THE FUCK...OUT!!!!!!

It felt good to say that.

I gotta go.

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