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Am I sick?
February 27, 2008
4:38 pm
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caraway
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Doris,

Good point, but should we not give someone the benefit of doubt, especially when new?

Cary

February 27, 2008
4:43 pm
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DorisDay
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Of course.

Again, I think the verbiage is what was being poo-poo'd, not the actual goings-on in the post.

I have heard similar stories here on this forum, different words, which received symphathetic responses, etc. In this case,I just think it was the verbiage..and the name ending in "69" that caused some to pause....

February 28, 2008
10:09 am
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Hello Ocean Mist969,

I hope you continue to post and that those who have supportive and respectful feedback are those who respond.

To everyone else, if you do not have supportive and respectful feedback, I ask that you step back from those folks/issues and let others respond. This site is about learning about ourselves and/or giving supportive & respectful feedback. If you're doing neither of those things here, then please think twice before continuing to post here. I will be rooting out innappropriate responses more often. So please feel welcome to give me a heads up in e-mail.

Feeling the need to 'shoot off' at someone is not a reason to post. If you find yourself scolding, judging, reprimanding, saying someone here disgusts you, or that they are wrong for their feelings or behavior is absolutely not supportive or respectful. Exploring people's thoughts, actions, and feelings however, is respectful. Explore, this is how we learn about others and ourselves.

This is not a psychological courtroom.

Please ocean mist, continue to post. If there comes a time when I think ocean mist and others would benefit more from using the liberation side of the threads I will let folks know.

Thanks, SC

February 28, 2008
10:26 am
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katzndog
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Oceanmist,

No I do not think you are sick. My reaction was due to the overabundance of detail you provided.

As long as what you are doing doesn't hurt you or others, I don't think it is sick. Bottom line here - it matters what YOU think.

I am sure you are aware that this could be called an alternative lifestyle. Not everyone condones or approves of this type of behavior as you are finding out on account of your friend's reactions. I think you may want choose who you want to share this information with carefully to avoid alienating friends who besides having this difference of opinion add value to your life.

katz

February 28, 2008
11:18 am
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Anonymous
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It's "our choice to read it"? Gimme a break. It'd be my choice if I went to a sex club or to a swinger site, but this place is for people who have been violated to come feel safe. Feeling uncomfortable with graphic sexual descriptions on a SUPPORT site does NOT mean one is a prude, religious or anything else. Matter of fact, it evidences HEALTH.

If someone talked graphically like this in a workplace, ALL employees within earshot could file a harassment complaint. If someone speaks like this to strangers on a bus or in a store, he/she could be arrested.

Sex should be a joyous thing, and consenting adults should do whatever makes them feel good. BUT unsolicited graphic descriptions of sexual acts, in a forum that is not explicitly ABOUT that sort of thing, violates others' boundaries. Being in need of support from others does NOT give one license to violate others by speaking inappropriately like this.

February 28, 2008
12:46 pm
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NorthEaster,

I hear a lot of shoulds and judgments in your post above.

This is not a workplace, this is not a public place (it is a priviledge to be here, not everyone is allowed), and your response is well outside of the guidelines set forth on this site.

If you take issue with another person's life, then that is your issue and please do not make it someone elses. You could alternatively create your own thread to talk about how you feel rather than creating judgments about others 'from' your feelings.

Otherwise, please leave the site.

Thanks, SC

February 28, 2008
12:52 pm
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Anonymous
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Site Coordinator,

If the two choices are to

a) keep my mouth shut on graphic sexual content because it is "judgmental,"

or

b) leave,

then I'll be certain not to let the door hit me on the way out.

Goodbye.

February 28, 2008
1:13 pm
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NorthEaster,

You, and everyone else here can do quite a bit on these threads, so long as it is within the 'guidelines' and follows the 'mission' (which is stated on the threads homepage).

Are respect and support something you value? Is ridiculing someone the right approach here? Oceanmist may be hurting, confused, and may need serious help... and therefore, this is the right venue for her. We can work with her within this site without automatically taking a "get her out of here" approach.

How many times does someone have 'hidden' issues, fears, and problems that they don't speak of (and won't) until they are given time and space? This IS the place to talk about things we might not feel comfortable talking about elsewhere... if that makes you uncomfortable, then this is not the place for you because that's what this place is for. And I will no longer tolerate folks who don't take heed to that.

So really, you have many other 'choices'. There are a couple hundred choices here. Including the choice to not follow guidelines because you either refuse to, or because respect and support as set forth here do not fit your definitions.

And just of note, a bit of your post was not accurate. For one, I don't think this is true: "If someone speaks like this to strangers on a bus or in a store, he/she could be arrested."

Folks, let's be a little more careful with people and information on this site.

SC

February 28, 2008
1:52 pm
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Anonymous
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Sorry - not taking the bait. Kindly do not address me anymore.

February 28, 2008
2:01 pm
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Anonymous
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Oh, just of note, the arrest sentence was quite accurate -- note the use of the word "could." The rest of your post is the sort of thing that I don't have time for in my life today. I will point out that you make a lot of judgments about me in your post. If I didn't care about the confidentiality and privacy of the conversations here, I'd slap a link to this site right on my Facebook and ask the public what THEY think of it.

February 28, 2008
2:09 pm
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nappy
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First of all, If everyone here is over the age of 18, they shouldn't be shock on what they read.

Some people here seem like that they haven't NEVER read or seen anything like this.

The Pandora Box has already been open and the world has already been expose to worst things then this.

If this person (Oceanmist) is looking for help, then those that can say a kind word or two should respond but if not then we need to keep out opinion to our self.

This person shouldn't have to feel like she is sick for what she enjoy, whatever it is. Everyone has there own pleasure of some kind, whether it sex, food, smoking, or drinking, right or wrong, we can not judge another person, we all have to understand that we are only human.

Keep posting Oceanmist, You found this site for a reason.

Nappy

February 28, 2008
2:25 pm
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Ok, NorthEaster you are asked to leave the site... please do not post on the site anymore and best wishes. thank you.

February 29, 2008
5:20 pm
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Everyone who has trouble absorbing the details of oceans posting need to get over it. If your truly supportive the details most definately matter. Ocean is trying to anonymously disclose this information to get the most accurate and honest answer. I commend you for your honesty. I don't think your sick. You probobly healthier than the 51% of marriages that fail every year because your truly fullfilling eachothers needs. That is what marriage is all about. I'm sure that Ocean is aware of all the risks but as adult we make the choices we feel comfortable making. Good luck, Carpe Diem, Hope this helps.

March 1, 2008
12:59 pm
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lovinglife
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Ocean Mist

It makes us pretty vulnerable to backlash when we speak from the depths of our mind (esp if we give what some might consider TMI-regardless of the content) as we’re searching for answers- direction- meaning to our lives/our selves, and perhaps just acceptance within ourselves for who we are etc, etc. And just for the record, you’re not the only person who has posted on AAC (or other online communities for that matter) who has been chastised from posting on topics ranging from being suicidal (being told that they are selfish or attention seekers) to a person in an abusive relationship condemned for allowing it to continue.

Ocean Mist- it may not seem like it but you did find the right place! I actually find it awesome that you sought out a place like AAC verses a ‘swingers support' community because it tells me that you are truly wanting to know “if you are sick” and not just looking for support to support a life style you are questioning if its sick : )
and oh, I tend to talk too much too!!

To answer your question straight out…. IMO - NO you are not sick. First, many healthy, normal people have sexually fantasies – you’re just living out what some people can’t (for whatever their reasons) do. You and your husband sound very sexually compatible and from what you described in IMO sounds very beautiful and loving…and btw- while your description was very vivid (ever thought about being a romance writer?!) - it helped me understand the sitz more as it gave me the detail to know it’s not about one or the other but it’s about both of you. Let me explain…

Now just recently, as a matter of fact, - the man I’m dating and I had a discussion about ‘threesomes’ (a gf of mine is bi- well on certain occasions she has been known to be. I’m not.)…She has no idea the bf and I had this talk:

So he finds her attractive… and we start out lightheartedly discussing it… “Would we - could we? Is this one of your fantasies…???” Me to bf ...“You really would?!” BF to me… “ Yes, how many guys don’t have the fantasy of being with two women?!” Me to bf…“So it would be just about the sex for you then?” (I’m thinking for myself more on the lines of what you described-what you get out of it- what I’d want him to get out of it) bf says “Yep, totally!” me to BF “ Ok then it would only be fair if we’d include her finance’ in on it too!!…” and the discussion stopped right there!! He in no shape or form would want to see me with another man.

To recap… IMO ‘are you sick?’ NO. You are enjoying something you and your husband find pleasurable to do as a couple together.

I believe where something becomes ‘sick’ or is sick - regardless of the topic and/or circumstance is when…just a few examples…

1. It becomes ‘an addiction’ that affects your lives. Example losing your jobs over it, not going into work because of long nights! Maybe not even having a job in the first place because the ‘addiction’ consumes too much of your life.

2. Either one taking part to solely please the other. Either one being forced or manipulated into taking part. Or if it goes against ones values and their in internal conflict over it.

3. It has a negative affect on others directly involved- say like children.

And….???

I also feel I need to add here that if I sound like I am supporting your life style that what I’m supporting is something you and your husband mutually find pleasurable for pretty much the same reasons - as a couple …Hell it could have been mountain climbing together for that matter! And that I do not find your thoughts/actions sick at all.

The question here could really be not so much if 'your sick' cuz you're not (IMO) but could the possible consequences of the life style cause you to become sick either physically or emotionally?? THAT truly is the question ; )

And welcome to AAC!!

March 1, 2008
2:45 pm
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Hi OceanMIst,
I don't see anything "sick" here. There are lots of people who enjoy similar things. The trick is to find a partner whose desires are compatible with your own.

My only caution is that actually living with another couple who you play with might lead to trouble--jealousy, etc.

Or it might not.

I'd say make sure you have lots of good conversation and make some clear agreements before you make the leap to cohabitation.

March 1, 2008
4:04 pm
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Linda Linda
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I met a girl from Amsterdam yesterday. She was so gentle and kind and just stated openly, we don't have the same hang ups as Americans do about sex.
She had a great boyfriend. Real clean cut, fun and exciting guy. Asked me if I want to come over. I was like sorry I am an American with hang ups, but carry on.
I just don't have that lust thing.
I never did. I like the romance with one person. Orgasm is nice. But I like the harp playing and the angels in the bedroom.

March 2, 2008
9:58 am
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bevdee
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This is an interesting thread. The content didn't bother me- I have read more explicit than this without feeling violated. I guess it intrigued me because Ocean Mist is brave enough to explore her sexuality and thoughtful enough to ask questions when challenged.

When I start to have thoughts about other women, I mentally back off. When I see those scenes in movies, I leave the room. What puts me off is not from a religious standpoint though, it's fear. My molestation was by a female. When my sister and I were in college she was in some 2 girl threesomes. When she told me about it, it scared me, I would half jokingly tell her she was a freak, and she would tell me I was a prude. Right now, I have a friend that has been experimenting in different sexual scenarios with her husband and because she likes it, is now evaluating her sexual "identity". She laughingly told me that between the two ladies, there was complete satisfaction and her husband wasn't "necessary". When she told me about it, I said, "well maybe you're gay" Crap, me and my blurting. Well, maybe she's not! Maybe she just liked the whole experience because it felt good. The questions that keeps circling back to me are "Why did I need to identify her sexually?" "Why do we feel this need to label or categorize ourselves and each other?"

I wonder if our society (me being a product of it) is so conditioned to believe a certain way, to proscribe to certain moral impositions even without realising it, that we as a society make ouselves sick with intolerance, or if that intolerance might make others sick with shame and guilt.

Is it unwell to refuse to consider other lifestyles? Are we unwell to be so fearful of something outside the "norm", (even though it is consentual and harms no one) that we must label it? Is it unwell to be unable to hear about it, or read about it? Is it sick or sort of narcissistic to believe that our way is the only way?

About boundaries - man, that's a complex subject to me. I tried a few times to talk about these questions with my therapist, who for whatever reasons, is unable to talk about it with me. She tells me it is normal to shut those feelings off. She says "you're normal!!" She labeled me normal, is that a gold star? I stopped trying to talk about it with her, because it's almost like in saying that, she states a boundary. I could tell it bugged her, so I had to back off , out of sensitivity to her and from fear of letting my therapist see that I might not be "normal". I do appreciate the irony of that, by the way. But from her response, I realised that she is not the one that will be able to work with me.

So, I had to ponder this one by myself. Well, sometimes I think I'm a homophobe, but I'm not, unless it is the fear I have of myself. I will defend anyone's sexual choices (between consenting adults). I can completely tolerate and even entertain the idea of a menage a trois with two men - that doesn't bother me a bit. But, like Lovinglife's man, most men aren't willing to agree to that, or another couple. (? - I don't know all men and I don't speak for them, these are the ones I know of). I wonder why. I wonder if it is because, in my observations, men tend to be a little more homophobic than women, maybe more competitive, and it might be intimidating for a man to give his woman over to another. When I was in my early twenties, I had a boyfriend that really wanted to do a threesome, asked me all the time, but he would never entertain the idea of that third person being another man. He was actually quite put off by the suggestion. Since he was only interested in increasing his pleasure, I declined. Polyandry has never been as accepted as polygyny. Ocean Mist has an exceptionally confident man, IMO.

But, in other cultures, different types of sexuality is and was viewed differently. Not as "sick", "wrong", "innapropriate", or "immoral".
Ancient cultures enjoyed same sex and group sex, and it wasn't until about 2000 years ago that those practices became "wrong". Native American tribes were polygynous, and the first European men that integrated into those tribes participated in that practice as well. It wasn't wrong until man made laws made it so. Until the Civil War, wealthy men in Southern cities used the placage system, and kept "women of color" as their mistresses. There are still Mormon sects in this country today that live polygamously, or polygynously, since it is illegal to marry more than one woman. They were raised in this type of community, several generations, so that is the "norm" to them. I think Islam law allows 4 wives and in Asia, the practice of concubines still exists. It's outside our "norm", but it's acceptable and appropriate in those communities.

Ocean Mist, you're not sick. I think you are lucky to have the freedom to explore your sexuality with a loving husband.

March 3, 2008
10:47 am
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caraway
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Bevdee,

Wow! You really have a better understanding and healthier view point than you realize.

I grew up Baptist in the South and always fit in, dated and slept with all of the "right" girls and some others just for fun, but I knew from the time I was 4 or 5 years old that I was different. The point that so many people miss is that you cannot teach, tell, force, or brainwash anyone into being something they aren't. I went through the motions of living a Hetero sexual lifestyle, but it wasn't me.

I think that women are more willing to experiment later in life because they are less likely to be judged for doing it. There are many men who would if they could be assured they wouldn't get caught. The sad thing is that all of this oppression causes folks to try and be something they never will be... straight.

I think that Ocean is talking about sexual expression, as you said, between consenting adults and that is actually healthy and honest (many people secretly want to do that but are too afraid. I believe this thread just hit too close to home for many and when we feel exposed we lash-out to distance ourselves from what makes us uncomfortable.

Religion and a healthy sex life just don't mesh very well. Who I have sex with is based on who was at birth. I am a God in action as I was created by God in his image and am just one of the many physical proof's of the presence of a Higher Power. (Not a religious plug here, just my opinion.)

So, thank you Bevdee for your wise words; It makes me hopeful to hear folks talk like that. In my opinion Ocean said what was on her mind clearly and honestly and got slammed for being so open and pure.

Cary

March 27, 2008
2:04 pm
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Ocean Mist969
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Hi. I just wanted to come to say thanks to everyone for all the responses you gave me. I am so sorry for trouble I probly caused. Coordinator, I wasnt going to come back sence i don;t have anything to offer except I wanted to thank you & the others that kept talking to me. The reason I want to thank everyone is cause that couple we get together with is not moving in with us after all. I mentionjed to my husband what people said about the jealousy & stuff but I acted like I was the one who thought of it. We talked & agree we cant be too exclucive with just one couple cause there could be problems then& after all we dont need that. we just want to have a good time with them. We'll keep seeing these friends except we wont party only with them. Everyone here was super sweet to give there opinions believe you me I appreciate them all. I thought about every thing that was said& I still kept reading & I can see that it really wasnt cause my words&verbage were graphic cause I have seen other stuff in here sence then with words that I didnt use & some that I did use. I mean what if someone had a bad expereince with a big dildo or something& saw so many people talking about vibrators? Isn't that the same? I guess everyone has somthing that botheres them. So maybe its more cause I like being with women & men sometimes at the same time & thats not talked about to much or it bothers people to think about it so some people will call it TMI or whatever. Im sure No I know what we do is done more than its talked about. It;s for sure fantecized about. i dont thnk i spelled that right whatever. We live in a small little city & we never have a hard time finding a good hard time. you know? I looked for other threads for talking about what I wanted to talk about here & there arnet that many & when there are they dont last long. this site IS kinda religious but different strokes for differnet folks right? I guess their might be other stuff too that isnt talked about cause of being afrraid of people here not aproving. I learnd that with the so called friend that called me sick. I found out she used to work at a massage parlor before she got religion!!! Oh KAYYY. So I guess I dont need to talk about it so much & it can be a secret but its not sick or dirty to me. It's really beautiful& free. It will be ok. I'm going to enjoy my life with my husband & weekends parties with our friends. Im lucky to have him to explore life with & hey I guess he's lucky to have me too!!! Guess where I hide Easter eggs? Cordinator & everyone, thanks again. thanks for taking time for encuraging & welcoming me& sharing your feelings about this with me.Theres some very nice people at this site & I am truly sorry if I hurt anyone by what I said this time.

March 27, 2008
2:15 pm
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DorisDay
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Good for you!

I give up. Where did you hide the Easter eggs?

March 27, 2008
2:55 pm
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I'm not familiar with your original postings.. Having said that, and, based on this post, my only comments would be:

Whatever makes people happy.... isn't dangerous to others.... and, isn't forced upon me.... Is AOK!!!

Your probably not the only couple in the free world to have "creative" hiding places for Easter eggs..

Hope this place give you comfort, guidance, and a variety of opinons..

Frayed

March 27, 2008
4:04 pm
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Ocean Mist969
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I hide them in my secret garden.

March 27, 2008
6:47 pm
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DorisDay
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Good for you!

March 28, 2008
1:03 am
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Hi Ocean Mist,

That's cool that you're back. I remember answering your original post and asking if you included the details because you wanted people to be clear about what you were questioning. Nothing you described sounded abusive or harmful in any way. I think it's pretty amazing that you and your husband are so confident with yourselves and your relationship that you can handle one another enjoying other people. And you're right, many people fantasize about doing what you and your husband do. What you described sounds a lot healthier than the sex lives of many other people. There's already enough shame and subjugation in the world. Why not share love and pleasure instead?

So, welcome back.

Mary

March 28, 2008
1:22 am
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MsGuided
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I didn't read your thread!!Missed it!
Too bad ( stamping feet)
I'm agnostic.Lots of us are here.Some are wiccan/pagan, athiest.
I am not a swinger, but I totally understand the lifestyle and why people do it..I don't think it's wrong!
Yea.differnt strokes. Honesty communication, and trust are key and even monogamous marriages don't have that!
If monogamy is the only answer then why so many problems within that "institution".It's just crazy!

...and those easter eggs probably melted pretty fast and they probably don't cause yeast infections like fruit does!
Don't put raw fruit in the secret garden ladies!ahahaha

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