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am i not understanding?
May 20, 2005
5:01 pm
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glittered when he walked
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well..my two cents worth back to the original question...choosing to live w/ a drug addict. well, therpaists would tell you that co-dependent persons are enablers and choose to live with actively using drug addicts. The addiction as disease agrument in my mind is immaterial to the question. Most therpaists I think would tell you that you should not tolerate an addict who is actively using. If you must use the disease angle ask yourself this "should we tolerate a loved one who is diabetic who actively ignores taking their own blood sugar levels while eating whatever they want and as much as they want?" No we should not. it doesn't mean we don't love them and it doesn't mean we are abandoning somoene with cancer. addiction is unhealthy and it should not be actively tolerated. otherwise it is being enabled.

I am married to an addict. she is active in recovery. she will be an addict until the day she dies (they all will) and when they die and they have been clean they will no longer be an addcit and will have won. If she were to start using again I would not tolerate it. I would force her to either leave or go back into recovery. Her using would be bad for everyone, me, her and our kids. I can tolerate an addict in recovery. i will not tolerate an active addict.

May 20, 2005
5:10 pm
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tracylyn
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Thanks mama, that truly means a lot.

I think I've done my homework (over and over again).

I'm right there with you with my kids. I tell them ALL the time. Lots of hugs, lots of kisses, lots of cuddling and a million I love you's.

We say it everytime they walk out the door. Every day when they leave for school, every night when they go to bed, every time they are scared or nervous, every time they just need to hear it and even when they don't. They say it to me too, all the time.

A few years ago I gave each of my children a small glass heart. They each got a different color so they knew it was theirs. I told them to carry it in their pockets and every time they needed me or missed me or were scared, to reach in the pocket and rub the heart and know how much they are loved. They all still have them, they don't carry them every day like they once did but they still hang on to them.

t

May 20, 2005
5:29 pm
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BamBam
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Deena,

As far as I have come to understand in my own recovery, I believe the "answer" to your question is it's different for everyone. We are only capable of so much at a time. If we have issues that we are not able to fully explore honestly and with no resentment all the while being self-loving (i.e. leaving an addict) and are not able to act on these issues in that capacity, then we shouldn't. It has to do with where we are in our own recovery. Leaving too soon, not leaving at all, ........ any of the alternatives to this issue may not be right for us at the time. We can only act on our judgment when we are ready. And, I believe, if we've done our homework, we'll know when it's time.

I was with an addict for over 12 years (and I had 2 kids with him) I can't believe that I had my children living in that environment....... but I know I did the right thing in staying with him that long and the right thing in leaving him, finally. I did what I could at the time. Recovery is crazy......but ALSO SO WONDERFUL....

May 20, 2005
5:31 pm
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mamacinnamon
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SC: I'm sorry. Wasn't trying to cause any more drama; seriously. Just naive enough to assume someone would have said sorry if told to leave. Obviously read more to her post than was there. Apologies.

May 22, 2005
5:55 pm
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Deena
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T....
read your post a few times. I do agree that it usually is more about us then the addict themselves. I agree a lot has to do with childhood, however I think people use that as excuses for a phucked up life. I was recently in a relationship with someone who drank heavily and yes, you are right...it was more about me rather than him and the situation itself. I felt like, oh he loves me and being the coda person I am I stuck it out and tried to control every aspect of it I could. Yes, what you wrote makes complete sense the more I read it and thought about it. I just wish people (myself included) could get past feeling like we are lucky to have someone even if it's an addict. Back to my "settling" comment. Never settle for just anything.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Bam...Thanks for the good point. I realize it's different for everyone. The more I read these posts the more I understand. I wish some poeple out there would be stronger and realize you can't help an addict if they won't help themselves..and move on. Thanks for the response. Glad to hear you and your children are out of that situation.

Deena

May 24, 2005
10:19 am
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rock bottom
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Hi all--

I have been out of this loop for quite some time and have just read this very interesting and dramatic thread.

First let me say that I have been involved with several addicts/abusers over the course of the last 25 years. The story remains the same. I stayed because I felt if he loved me enough, he would change. I could save him. It NEVER worked. What it did, however, was cause me to live in constant fear, mistrust, and loss of self. The last relationship of this sort was 8 years ago, when I stayed and believed in his recovery process and in him, because he told me so, and addicts are the best liars on earth. It was not until he stole my credit cards and my mother's credit cards that I saw the light and threw him out. I was clueless until the end. Today I have heard he is still in trouble. Had I stayed, my life as well would have been destroyed. I enabled him by being there for him and believing his lies.

Lollipop, I commend your husband for what he is attempting. The facts are, however, that MOST addicts do not recover, and when they do, they eventually fall off the wagon at a later time. Those are facts. There are exceptions and I sincerely hope your husband is one of those. For my life, I made a decision that I would NEVER become involved again with an active addict, and have stuck by that. My job is to take care of me, not someone else's addiction, or anyone else at all, for that matter. That is their job, and their job only.

With regard to addiction being a disease or a choice, my best male friend is an addict and had been clean for 16 years. The loss of his fiance 8 years ago caused him to CHOOSE to pick up the bottle again. He made the conscious choice after having CHOSEN not to drink for a very long time. I too am a smoker. I choose to smoke although I am fully aware of the dangers. It is not a disease and I too could choose to stop and endure the withdrawal at any time. I am also a Love Addict, and have made choices in my life regarding men that have caused me drama, chaos, and major pain. I attribute all of this to lack of self-love, which I continue to work on each day and my progress has been tremendous. I no longer choose to have these people as a part of my life. I believe part of this addiction does stem from childhood experiences. Although mine was happy for the most part, I endured much disapproval from my mom during my teenage years which left me a people-pleaser through my adult years. I am learning now to please myself and surround myself with healthy people only.

"The reasons we stay with someone who is an addict really has nothing to do with them and everything to do with us, our childhood, our patterns, our behaviors." Tracylyn, right on.

More importantly, I am appalled and disgusted at your attacks at Peacesoul. From what I have read here, she was telling her story in an attempt to help you. Not to tell you to leave the relationship, but to simply see the facts. Regarding your senseless comment that she is uneducated, she is probably the MOST educated, honest, and self-aware person on this board.

Thanks to her support, experience, and CARING, I was able to FINALLY let go of an incredibly toxic relationship with a man who I had been seeing for over 2 years while he was involved with another woman. I not only could NOT leave the relationship, I obsessed over him, allowed him to "suck me back in" time and time again, was at the point of seriously considering revenge (not the dangerous kind-LOL-). This obsession was overtaking my entire life and not ONE person helped me see the light like this woman did.

Through her experiences and EDUCATION on the subject, Peacesoul supported me over the last few months through my ordeal and pain, until I finally was able to let go (happily!).

She has shared her story and has not judged anyone on this site, and yes, she tells it like it is. Which most people here need to hear but are afraid to, since that means taking a good hard look at ourselves. I can't help but wonder what caused you to call HER uneducated and initiate a personal attack.

The decision of the Site Coordinator also amazed me. I have seen "catfights" here (many), I have seen threads bordering on porn, and countless other offensive discussions. It baffles me why she was banned from the site after simply defending herself. I see an apology due from elsewhere here. Perhaps this could be explained.

"However, I just have one question to ask.

Explain to me how it is enabling the addict by standing by him during his recovery? Did it ever occur to the people here that perhaps he went for recovery because I stopped enabling his addiction?"

This sounds to me like you are most certainly looking for insight, which is also most probably why you came here in the first place. You then attack people for giving it. Again, please explain.

For what reason DID you single HER out and personally insult her?

KC said, ".I didn't see much in her response that would have led you to believe she was arguing with you about anything...she spoke in generals..."when you get tired you will stop"...because that was her experience." That's kind of what I thought. As a matter of fact, that's EXACTLY what I thought.

If you are not interested in hearing the truth and the facts, maybe you should look elsewhere...

That is my two cents. Looking forward to comments....have a great day and good luck.

Rock

May 24, 2005
1:51 pm
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Rock,

It's hard to follow all the threads on these boards, so you have missed important information, but I don't have the time to explain all important decisions that are made on these threads. My hope would be that folks would trust decisions that I make, or else they themselves, wouldn't be here. Why would you be here if not to trust the maintainer & creator & nurturer of these threads?

Also, peacesoul has not been banned. How that word gets miscontrued and tossed out is amazing to me. It happens frequently, though people are rarely 'banned'. I asked peacesoul to stop the random smack talk on other threads (not just this one), and instead, come to me in email instead of contining to post like that. She still has not come to me, but it's not my job to explain publicly all decisions or problem solving. I don't have the time, energy, or resources. I'm explaining somewhat right now, because posts like yours, bends the truth, facts, and my judgment far off.

Catfights, whether they have happend in the past or not, are not encouraged, and if I choose to stop one (based on my decision), again, my hope is that it is a trusted decision. If not, the boards go to hell, and with a click, they truly must end, as I cannot put forth the effort into maintaining something that won't allow it's own maintenance.

Thank you to those who trust, know, and allow this site's maintainance.

Right now, these threads are bordering on being unhealthy. I know this, because of threads like this. Threads where folks defend, attack, re-attack, and smack other people around or take sides. Catfights in the past, resolved or not, this is an intrusion and misrepresentation of this site's intent. Stop defending, stop attacking, and help one another for God's sake.

Peace.

May 24, 2005
1:55 pm
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lollipop3
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Peacesoul....is that you?

Just kidding....trying to lighten the mood.

I appreciate your input and I respect what you have to say.

I think this drama has been fully played out and we should all just move on.

Thank you again for your point of view.

Lollipop

May 26, 2005
3:13 pm
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rock bottom
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I was wondering if the issue of last week with Peacesoul was resolved, was hoping to see her here as her feedback, insight, experience, and humor is very much missed.

No doubt I am not the only one missing her here.

May 26, 2005
3:28 pm
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2bstrong
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rockbottom--

I too, miss peacesoul. Something she shared with me a couple of weeks ago has been pivotal in my process of recovering from my broken relationship.

I did notice that she had posted on another thread today.

---wishing peace to peacesoul.

May 26, 2005
3:49 pm
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Deena
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I miss peace too. She always just told it like it was. Hey peace you out there? COuld use a good cat fight. Ha ha

Peace where r u?

May 27, 2005
11:35 am
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rock bottom
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I was really sorry to not see a response from Peacesoul. I assumed all would be resolved at this point and we would let sleeping dogs lie, so to speak.

I think we should start a thread begging for her mercy and for her to come back. I hope she's OK...PEACE WHERE ARE YOU?????????

Lolli,

thanks for sharing your story. I am unclear though, as I thought you had said your boyfriend had been in rehab for nine months. On the other thread you had posted that he refuses to go. Just wondering....

Good luck to you....

Peace

May 30, 2005
4:29 pm
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lollipop3
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Hi Rock,

Actually what I said was that he has been sober for nine months but he has refused to deal with the issues behind the drinking.(In a nut shell)

I hoped this cleared up your confusion.

Lolli

May 31, 2005
9:46 am
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peacesoul
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Hey guys...I'm here! Not much into posting but have been reading threads. The SC and I came to an understanding about the outburst here and she is correct, outbursts like the one that played out here were uncalled for.
Now having said that, my counter-attack on Lolli was going against the guidelines and I should have been the "better" person and ignored her ignorant comment.
Now that I have been reading some threads again, what I find ironic is how this same person that accused me of being uneducated is the same person who is now taking the advise from this thread that she found repulsive and it not only taking it, but offering it up in other threads.
Of course this does not anger me since I guess it shows my advise was not all bad !

Lolli I have to say, I hope you think twice before you attack someone's knowledge and insight. Maybe you were having a bad day, maybe you could not face your "truth", but for whatever reason you chose to be so rude, I'm happy you now see we were all here just trying to be helpful.
I've read your other posts and am very happy you are away from your ex ! Keep strong, it does get easier !

2BE, I am so happy I said something that was pivotal to your healing. I remember when I first came to this board, someone said something to me that change my whole life and perspective about my healing process. It's utterly amazing how through our healing we can share our experience's to help heal others?!

Rock, you know your healing was mostly due to your true strength and kind heart. Girlfriend, as much as I helped you, your kind words and wisdom helped me through some VERY dark nights/days ! Thank you so very much for your kind words here....I am flabbergasted at your appreciation ! I never knew how much you loved me...hahaha ! Rock, you have offered me up many bits of advise that truly were pivotal in my healing as well. You should be posting more often to share your great wisdom :- )

Deena, I always tell it like it is, but do it with a kind heart. Thanks to you also :- )

Sc, thanks for keeping up a wonderful site....also glad you chose to "stay on board".....this site has saved many lives, including my own !

Peace to All :- )

May 31, 2005
3:46 pm
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tracylyn
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Peace baby ~

Nice to see you back. We missed you!! =)

t

May 31, 2005
9:13 pm
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Deena
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peace....missed you girl. Glad you are back. Like I said you always tell it like it is. I wish some people would stop walking on egg shells (so to speak) and really say what they feel. I like a little cat fight every know and then. Sorry SC.

June 1, 2005
8:10 am
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peacesoul
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Hi Tracy and Deena...thanks ladies !

Was a little reluctant to post again since I felt unfairly targeted, but I mulled it over and realized I cannot allow those with combative behavior to dictate. Besides, the SC made some valid points which I thought were fair :- )
I was being a baby...I am all grown up now :- )

June 1, 2005
10:41 am
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tracylyn
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Being a grown up sucks sometimes!!!

But good to have you back.

June 1, 2005
12:23 pm
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gazelle
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"Peace in your heart ... / Peace in your soul ... / Peace in your head ..." - Matt Hales from Aqualung, latest album.

This always reminds me of your self-confessed search for inner peace on the Names thread - which reflects my own too. I know how upsetting feeling misunderstood & criticised can be. Am feeling quite horrid now re. my self-centered, unresponsive, unempathetic bf ... eugh! 🙁

But let's hang in there and trust the universe / karma / whatever to bring us the kind of acknowledgement & inspiration we truly need to help us to grow and feel better.
Blessings - gazelle.

June 2, 2005
12:53 pm
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Hi Peace,

I'm glad to see that you've been able to work things out with the SC and happy to see you are posting again, as I know how important this site is to you.

However, having said that, I feel very disrespected by your post.

I am trying to let "by gones be by gones" and chalk it up two strong willed women with differing opinions, however, I feel that your post was a continued attack on me. It was a slap in the face, covered by well wishes.

The fact of the matter is, I've been coming to this site on and off for quite some time. I have never found this site or any advice I've been given as "repulsive". I have gotten and taken a lot of great advice from people here on this site. It has also helped me a great deal with my own healing to help others here.

Just because you and I had a disagreement does not give you the right to ridicule me by saying that you find it "ironic" that now I am asking for help.

I've had a lot of ups and downs in my life and in my relationship with my boyfriend and I don't expect to made fun of if I have a problem and need to come here for support.

You don't have to like me or to agree with me, however, I will ask that you respect me. If we can at least agree on that, I will extend you the same courtesy.

Thank you,

Lolli

June 2, 2005
1:40 pm
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Lolli, thanks for posting and sorry if you felt disrpected by my post.

Maybe if you owned up to your insult to me and said sorry, this would not have gone so far.

I respect everyone on this site that talks to me in a respectable manner. You chose to talk down to me and attack me. Respect is given when respect is earned!

You and I did not have a disagreement hun, you flat out INSULTED ME!
A disagreement is a difference of opinions followed by banter.

easy for you to let bygones be bygones, since you were in thw wrong.

Come on girl, take ownership of your faux pas.

June 2, 2005
1:49 pm
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peacesoul
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Here is just a reminder for you...

lollipop3
19-May-05

I've found that you just can't argue with the uneducated. (Was this just a difference of opinion?)

We are all entitled to our opinions and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Peacesoul- as far as my boyfried is concerned he is in recovery, he has been sober for 9 months and I am very proud of him.

Perhaps with a little change of attitude you could have had the same experience. (Ouch, who slapped first)

This was not a disagreement. That was hurtful and uncalled for,
We all come here to heal, to gain advice and give advice, not to be insulted and attacked when we do.

Like I aid, take ownership of your mistake. They do teach this in AA!

June 2, 2005
4:58 pm
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lollipop3
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Yes Peacesoul....I know exactly what I said and I also know exactly what I was responding to.

You seem to have a convenient way of only looking at the things that I've said and not taking responsibility for your own actions.

I have read and re-read those posts many times and the reason I have not apologized is because I do not feel that I was wrong. Not to mention the fact that the SC read them as well and judging by her posts, obviously found that you were out of line as well. And, even after all of this you just continue and continue and continue.

At this point all I'm asking for is for you to just let it go.
Stop with the insults, stop with digs, and just let it go.

This site is supposed to help people, so let it.

Thanks,

Lollipop

June 2, 2005
6:08 pm
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lollipop3
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Actually, you know what Peacesoul, ....I will apologize for one of the things I said....

I'm sorry that I said "perhaps with a little change of attitude you could have had the same experience".

I was angry at what you had said to me, however, that comment was uncalled for and I apologize.

Lollipop

June 2, 2005
7:03 pm
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Why would we be competitive at being 'better' CoDa's than others on these anonymous threads? :?)

Each of us is walking a completely unique path (either because our POV - "privatly operated vision" is out of tune or just plain broke) and found our way here out of a need for something lacking. Ever meet a great mechanic who owns and drives a piece of junk; or visit your housekeeper at home to find her place less than tidy; or do a great job for strangers at work and then a lousy one for loved ones at home? I think many of us resonate on these points and we come here to find both comfort in a common voice and confidence in a personal solution to our condition.

Each time I find an opinion here so utterly incomprehensible to me as to stop me in my tracks and reconsider my position, that's a good thing. Reflection is good for the soul and better for a slight remodeling of the soul's current rental unit. ;?)

I enjoy not agreeing with a lot of what I read, and being taken down paths I never thought to ponder. Empathy and Compassion are wonderful Spring crops to plant and watch grow.

Every 5,000 smiles you're supposed to rotate your soul so it wears evenly and you don't develop alignment issues in your journey thru life. I find my CoDa evolved because I was busy making sure others had a maintenance plan and ignoring my own.

I'm here to amend ....and mend....Amen...!

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