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am i not understanding?
May 19, 2005
2:45 pm
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kc30
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I've just re-read your threads, and it didn't really sound like you are enabling based on what you've said.

You said that you stay with him because he is taking responsibility, and 9 months in recovery is a good start. You both go to meetings and are taking it one day at a time, which is all you can do. No gurantees, but it's a start, right?

Your situation may work out...most don't...and again, everyone is just speaking from experience. Maybe it was assumed you were enabling because you reacted so strongly to Peacesoul's posts?

Amateur sleuth here...still trying to understand the trigger...

kc

May 19, 2005
2:46 pm
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lollipop3
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I agree with you kc.

My point in this whole thing was that my opinion is that addiction is a disease.

That does not mean that I think that addicts are not responsible for their actions.

I have held my boyfriend accountable for his actions. It's been a long ride but he now also finds himself accountable.

I see changes in him that make me grateful that I stuck it out and all I can ask for is that he and I both stay in recovery and that we live happy, healthy lives.

May 19, 2005
2:49 pm
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kc30
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Well lolli- I hope the same thing for you! I wish I could have had that ending with my husband, but it wasn't to be.

Hence...I still await the lawyer's call!! 🙂

kc

May 19, 2005
2:55 pm
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lollipop3
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Peacesoul,

I'm not accepting his addiction.

I left him. I told him I would not allow his choices to destroy my life.

I got sober myself, returned to Al-anon (which I had stopped going to), started therapy and I returned to school to change the direction of my life.

It was his choice to get sober.

It has now been 9 months since his last drink and although everything has not been perfect as we've still had some major issues, it has been a gift.....A gift that I never would have experienced had I given up.

If that is enabling....then I'm guilty.

May 19, 2005
3:01 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Ladies...

Are we all cool here or does mama need to break out the timeout chairs. lol. (just kiddin).

Ya'll have very valid points. This is a subject that is raw and cuts to the bone. Some will recover and some won't. Some will stay and some will walk. Each individual and each circumstance is totally different. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other.

I've seen many sides and many points brought forth here that are valid and all enlightening.

Can we agree to disagree and make peace? So much to learn and to little time to throw it away on tempers.

lova ya'll, mamaC

May 19, 2005
3:03 pm
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lollipop3
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Right on Mama....you said it perfectly!

Thank you for the words of wisdom.

Lollipop

May 19, 2005
3:08 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Deena,

Would you like to continue w/ your thread. I'll be around if you want to talk more. 🙂

May 19, 2005
3:09 pm
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lollipop3
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Deena,

sorry we took over.

lollipop

May 19, 2005
4:16 pm
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Deena
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It's okay..im just sitting back here reading all this. It's really interesting to me all the different situations and opinions. That's why i am here. After all this, I need a beer- straight from the bottle- no glass please. Whew.....

I guess another one of my ???? is why stick around when that person IS NOT in recovery? I understand former addicts who are now in recovery but what about the ones still using?

May 19, 2005
4:34 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Deena:

Cannot answer that question. I think each circumstance is as different as black is to white (not racially), or as solid is to liquid.

I was just pinning a quilt, or should I say stickin myself, and a song came on the radio. I was singin along and thought: "This is what we are talkin about" So, if you don't mind. I'm not minimizing your question.... just think this will maybe explain it a bit of a different way.

I'm only printing part of it. It's Don't Worry Bout a Thing by SheDaisy.

"We all got a little junk in the trunk, And when you're feelin' good as sunk, Remember, everything will be just fine, If I laugh at yours then you'll laugh at mine.

Life is funny, life's a mess,
Sometimes a curse, sometimes a blessing, Don't worry 'bout a thing, don't worry 'bout it. Life gets sticky, life can bruise, Sometimes you win sometimes your losing, No matter what it brings, Don't worry 'bout a thing."

Kinda reminds me of our little family here. Ya'll think???

Deena, it's good to ask question; it's good to want to learn. I'm sure maybe someone can answer that question, but I cannot. 🙂

May 19, 2005
5:01 pm
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on my way
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just found out that my 17 year old son has been using. he is currently in a program to stabalize him. he may have an addictive personality which will be more difficult for him to solve this, or he may be going through a teen phase...to me, neither is acceptable. but addictive personalities run in my family. right now he needs support, and I cannot enable him. he bagan for a variety of reasons, only recently, but if he continues, he will ruin his life...so it is about choices...choices to be healthy or not.

May 19, 2005
5:17 pm
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tracylyn
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Deena - there is a loooong answer to that but I'll have to wait until tomorrow to respond. Sorry, no time!! I'm headed home to open a Corona - no glass - no lime.

t

May 19, 2005
7:14 pm
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Deena
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T- you rock. No glass for us cheap chicks. Respond when you have time.

Mama...you always respond so well to these questions. Thanks for the lyrics- very true and accurate.

OMW- are you okay? All you can do is give him the love and support he needs. I think it's a whole different ballgame when it's your child rather than a b/f. At 17 we all made bad choices. Im 32 and still always make stupid choices. Keep me posted.

Love ya all....

May 20, 2005
11:38 am
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tracylyn
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Hey Deena ~

I'm back - yeah it's Friday!!

Let me put this precursor out there before I answer. My thoughts here are based on all the information I've read, the therapy I've received, and the healing work that I've done myself over that last 5 years. These are my opinions based on my own experience and the knowledge I've attained along the way.....

The reasons we stay with someone who is an addict really has nothing to do with them and everything to do with us, our childhood, our patterns, our behaviors.

We can label ourselves codependent and do the work to recover from this but bottom line - is getting to the source and finding out why this happens.

Codependency is a dysfunctional relationship really with ourselves, not the other person. For some reason or another, for me was having an alcoholic father, we internalize the belief that we are not worthy of love because someone that was "supposed" to be there for us was not emotionally available to us as a child. It could be that a parent or someone that was supposed to be there for you passed away, was too ill, was emotionally abusive, was deconnected, gave you up for adoption, or just wasn't able to love in some way. So, that child doesn't feel worthy of love or being happy. We develop very low self esteem. "Why would anyone want me."

I'll point out that none of this is apparent outwardly. You may seem completely full of yourself to others while internally you are a scared child but we hide that so no one sees it. But again, it's subconscience, we don't know we are doing this. It's a behavior pattern we've learned along the way.

As we grow into adulthood that child is still there just screaming out to be loved. So, along comes this person that we seem to relate to. Why do we relate, because it's familiar.

When this person loves us we almost feel indebted to them because "oh my God he loves me and I'm just not worth loving". Because we haven't healed from the childhood scars we feel like we owe this person everything. We think that we can show this person love like they've never had and for this, they'll change. We need them to need us because if they didn't NEED us then they might leave.

We are willing to put up with anything, lies, abuse, adultry, addications, because we are so afraid that if this person leaves we'll be alone and no one else could possible love us again. We put up with these things by making excuses for their behavior, denying their behavior, ignoring their behavior or comfronting their behavior and believing we have the power to save them or change them.

We have such a fear of being alone because we felt abandoned as a child. We won't be whole until we heal that child and learn that we are very lovable and deserve every bit of happiness that comes our way. We've tried to fill this void in ourselves with another person, an unhealthy person, because until we become healthy ourselves, we will continue to attrack the same kind of people. And until we become healthy and whole we will continue to give ourselves way beyond our means, to keep someone.

Bottom line is we HAVE to love ourselves. We can't be addicted to love and the relationship. We can't give up who we are in hopes that someone will love us.

You can find more information in any of the Melody Beattie books. Also the book, Women who love too much is pretty good too.

I hope this helps.

t

May 20, 2005
11:42 am
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lollipop3
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very well said t,

I also read Women Who Love Too Much and related to it so much that when I started therapy, I brought that book with me for my first session and told my therapist "I'm not sure how this author knows me....but she wrote this book about me".

We both got a chuckle out of it, but it was very enlightening for me.

lollipop

May 20, 2005
11:50 am
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tracylyn
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Hey lolli ~

Too funny, when I first read Co-dependent No More I thought I would turn the page and see a picture of myself. I couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting residuals from the sale of the book because she wrote it about me!!! lol

t

May 20, 2005
11:55 am
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peacesoul
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TRACY you say....

"The reasons we stay with someone who is an addict really has nothing to do with them and everything to do with us, our childhood, our patterns, our behaviors"

That is the BEST answer in a nutshell!

(applause please)

The reason why I stayed with my ex drug addict had everything to do with me.
Let me tell you, as hard as it was to be with someone like him and in this unhealthy situation, I learned so many valuable lessons. I will never again allow another person to control me like that nor will I ever be in another untrusting/unhealthy relationship.

That experience opened my mind so much I finally, after many years, found my authentic self...and I am feeling GOOD !!!

Coffee shots for all ;- )

May 20, 2005
12:15 pm
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tracylyn
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Hey peacesoul ~

Just be careful cause when in a new realtionship and trying to be healthy...at first it just seems like you are fighting your every instinct NOT to fall back on those old ways.

After I left my marriage, I went right into another bad relationship. I thought I had done the work to recover but nooooo... He was emotionally abusive but not like my ex. He did it in subtle ways and always told me he was trying to help me. In the end (2 years later) I figured out that his helping me was more of controlling my every move to try and make me be who HE wanted...not who I was.

After that, I remained single why I did a lot more work, A LOT. I still have tendencies of course but I do feel now that I'm in a very healthy, honest relationship but bottom line....it's because I have a healthy relationship with myself. I know who I am, I love who I am, and above all else...I'm finally honest with myself.

t

May 20, 2005
12:21 pm
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peacesoul
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Yeah I am "on-guard" for sure. I'm actually dating this new guy now and it's funny cause it's so tough to focus on him and maybe a future "us", cause I am so busy trying to catch all the red flags.
I am like a cat that sees a flashlight, My head and eyes swing back and forth trying to catch all the flags..hahah

Thanks for the re-enforement. You can rest assured if things get serious with this new guy, I will be posting here looking for advice....educated advice of course (kidding) ;- )

May 20, 2005
12:26 pm
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tracylyn
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Warning -

Trying too hard to catch the red flags is ummmm, a red flag on you. lol

Relax, enjoy the relationship, don't "think" too much. Your instincts will let you know what's right.

Good luck to you!!!

t

May 20, 2005
12:31 pm
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peacesoul
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Hey Tracy, the SC just asked me to leave the site for "attacking" so I want to say Bye to you.
Good luck with your situation.
You seem like a wonderful kind spirit so I am sure things will work out great for you.
Thanks for all your great insight.

be well :- )

Kiss

Peace

May 20, 2005
2:03 pm
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Deena
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thanks again to all that repsonded and helped me out here on this thread. Im sorry that it caused so much controversy. But of course we do love the drama.

love to all

Deena

May 20, 2005
2:14 pm
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tracylyn
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Deena - Deena,

Did you read thru my answer to your question. Just wanted to know what your thoughts are and if it helps you understand.

t

May 20, 2005
4:38 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Tracylyn:

Very well said dear. Your explanation left no stone unturned.

I believe in my first marriage that the need for love was a major factor in us marrying and my staying so long, but then it turned bad. Really bad. Thinking back it was bad before we got married. But we married anyway and then it became a matter of survival.

What you said about the need for love. That was so strong a feeling that I needed love even tho I knew I was loved. Something was just missing. Never thought of that as being the reason for my codependency. Wow! I know when I was to the point of suicide I had, had, had to hear my dad say he loved me. He did; but I don't ever remember it being said before or maybe 2 times after. It was just a given. Maybe that's why my kids heard I Love You every day.

You said "Bottom line is we HAVE to love ourselves. We can't be addicted to love and the relationship. We can't give up who we are in hopes that someone will love us." That is so very right. If you don't mind, might I add.... to help break the cycle tell your kids every day by mouth and by actions that you love them. Make sure they know it. I knew I was loved, but I never saw it or heard it. I think it MUST be verbalized.

Thanks for letting me add my 2 cents.

Peacesoul: I am so sorry to see you go. Think you could ask for mercy? Apologize again?

May 20, 2005
4:48 pm
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mama,

You said, "Peacesoul: I am so sorry to see you go. Think you could ask for mercy? Apologize again?"

I think all peacesoul needs to do, is apologize once, give other people the mercy, and come to me in email. If she has left, that is her own choice.

None of the above, have been started or completed.

If she has further questions or attacks on me, the guidelines, or others, then I prefer it best left for email is all I'm asking. The drama making on these threads (abusive remarks, rude remarks, attacks, defense, using multiple threads to jab others, etc) is over folks. I am making a hard stand on that. Peacesoul can still post at this time.

Over and out.

sc

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