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am i not understanding?
May 19, 2005
1:45 pm
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tracylyn
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Well lolli as you can see I didn't come running in to be the bully. (I guess I'm the school bully now - lol)

I just popped in to referee in hopes you both could possibly see each others view and understand where the raw emotions were coming from.

I do have a thought in relation to my current "drama". I walked away from my ex because of his addictions (money, power) and that was 5 years ago but I continue to defend him and as Amazed and SC pointed out to me, I enabled him by doing so and now my life is in full speed drama mode once again.

Sometimes we can love people too much. We think that because we love them sooo much that we have to be there for them but in doing so we loose ourselves, our goals, our dreams...and for what? For love, perhaps because we think no one else will love us. You don't have to defend why you stayed by your bf's side and supported him, I think we all understand that too a point. Just know that this will be a lifelong battle and you HAVE to take care of you in the process.

t

May 19, 2005
1:46 pm
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peacesoul
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Well I guess I was taken aback by being insulted by just giving my opinion.
yeah I said the "nasty bitch" comment before lunch and my blood sugar was low so....haah

I don't take too kindly to being personally attacked when someone, whom I was not even addressing, calls me uneducated!

Kc, I HIGHLY doubt I would ever get angry with you because I highly doubt you are ignorant enough to ever lash out with a personal attack.
Yes I speak my mind, but only get heated about it when attacked!
I did not get better and recovery by being a wallflower that's for sure.
You guys know me a little and know my story a little, I am far from rude, mean or hurtful so...

May 19, 2005
1:47 pm
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lollipop3
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I wouldn't exactly call it a nerve being touched....I just called it as I saw it. Just the fact that she brought all of you into it from other threads proves my point as far as I'm concerned.

As far as whether or not boyfriend will stay clean and sober...I don't know. No one knows...not even the super smart peacesoul.

I attend Al-alon, as well as open AA meetings and have heard many sucess stories, so I guess I just keep thinking positive and hope for the best.

May 19, 2005
1:48 pm
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Deena
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oooh the drama....this is my thread. Go get your own. (Joking)
Everyone had their own opinons and that's cool. I know I am uneducated about this and that's why I asked. DUH! Once again thanks all for taking the time to respond...I guess this is a situation I will not understand the reasons (to me excuses) for putting up with the crap of an addict.

Peace- You are a feisty chic with great nails, right? Rock on girl. I got your back.

May 19, 2005
1:54 pm
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peacesoul
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"She brought all of you in from other threads"

Wow, you must think I have some power!
Ummm these wonderful ladies responded of their own free will!

"Super Smart Peace" I like it!

from now on you can all call me "SUPER SMART PEACE"....or dumb ass, whatever suits your fancy!

May 19, 2005
2:00 pm
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tracylyn
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Nope - I'm just going to call you Zippy Cootiebuns. A hot Zippy Cootiebuns of course.

Ummmm but hey, (in reference to your above post)

Are you now calling me ignorant for personally attacking someone the other day? Watch out girl - I have claws. LOL (laughing out loud - for 2B)

t

May 19, 2005
2:00 pm
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kc30
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Man oh man...see I am so gutless and scared to hurt people's feelings that I would probably not get into something like this...but I'm a BAD rubbernecker and I just can't look away!! 🙂

Lolli- I have been following this thread from the beginning because it is of interest to me. I didn't come in from another thread to shake things up, althout the drama is a nice distraction. I'm not saying you were singling me out personally when you made that comment, just stating that this is a thread and an issue that I have some experience with, so it's close to my heart. Please don't feel ganged up on...that's not the case at all.

Peace's original posting was not directed at you personally...just sharing her experience and opinion with Deena, who originated the thread. You singled her out first and engaged her personally...I didn't see much in her response that would have led you to believe she was arguing with you about anything...she spoke in generals..."when you get tired you will stop"...because that was her experience.

That's why it seemed like maybe it touched a nerve...you did sort of throw the first stone (the uneducated comment) Not sure if it was directed directly at her, but seeing as you had already singled her out, maybe it was easy to assume it was? Peace's story touched a bad nerve in there, or else you wouldn't have reacted and singled her out in the way you did...IMHO...

Feel free to enlighten me if I've misread...these boards are hard to follow by times!

kc

May 19, 2005
2:04 pm
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peacesoul
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Tracy, when you lashed out, you immediately apologized b/c you knew you were lashing out from a momentary heat flash..hahah...So was saying FU to someone ignorant, sure it was, as ignorant as me calling you a brown noser. But we realized we were being "COOTIE BUNS" and we said sorry. We went out and did some shots, picked up some hot guys and...oh wait, that was not with you...

hahahaha

May 19, 2005
2:08 pm
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lollipop3
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I hear what your saying kc and perhaps I shouldn't have taken it personally but the fact that her post about "defending my boyfriend will destroy my life"....started with....lollipop, you say.....

I apologize if she was referring to a different lollipop.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

May 19, 2005
2:08 pm
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2bstrong
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Hello all:

For the record--I'm a nosey person, I like to dabble in all of the threads.

I, like Deena have no clue as to what living with and loving an addict is like. I found this thread very educational. I never posted because I didn't feel that I have the knowledge.

May 19, 2005
2:11 pm
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peacesoul
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Was just trying to help ya out there Lolli....Let me be the first to say I am so sorry for trying to give you MUCH NEEDED insight into your situation !

As long as you feel like you need to defend an addict, you will always be this defensive.

I really do wish you the best for a healthy recovery. I know the pain (very well)

Ok....can we now do some shots !!

May 19, 2005
2:13 pm
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lollipop3
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Hi 2b,

I'm glad you found this post helpful.

Unfortunatley, we've gotten away from the purpose of this site and have resorted to immaturity.

Me included, before someone feels like I'm attacking them.

May 19, 2005
2:16 pm
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peacesoul
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And by the way, when I said you will stop defending your boyfriend when you are destroyed was in NO WAY a shot in the arm. I meant it...I stopped defending my drug addict when I realized he was taking me down fast. This was a factual statement not a shot...you are quite sensitive.
If that is the case, maybe ease up a bit on posting so others will not get under your skin so much when they try to offer you some help or advice !

Just a thought...

May 19, 2005
2:16 pm
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lollipop3
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See peacesoul, that is EXACTLY my point.

How on earth do YOU presume to know what insight I need?

Like I said, if you can't take what comes back at ya, you should keep you judgements to yourself.

May 19, 2005
2:16 pm
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kc30
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I just re-read that post...

I won't try to interpret her intent...I tend to write to people using "you" generically, not specifically, so I didn't catch that.

Seems a moot point though (although I'm going to watch my writing styles a bit more closely)....she didn't call you any names, just shared an opinion based on her experience.

And she's right in principle...defending/enabling another's destructive behaviour will drag us down...you know that yourself- you attend Al-Anon. So if that isn't something you are doing, why would that comment bother you?

I am still wondering if maybe you've taken some heat from a lot of people about this, and maybe it's just touchy because a lot of people don't understand...?

May 19, 2005
2:21 pm
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lollipop3
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I agree with, and because I do attend Al-anon I don't feel the need to swear at people.

However, I just have one question to ask.

Explain to me how it is enabling the addict by standing by him during his recovery? Did it ever occur to the people here that perhaps he went for recovery because I stopped enabling his addiction?

As far as people giving me hard time about staying with him, I guess I've been fortunate to be surrounded by
supportive people as opposed to drama queens that think they know what's best for others.

Sorry if I sound defensive and I don't mean to attack you kc....just please explain this to me.

May 19, 2005
2:24 pm
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kc30
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2b- how are ya girl. Lolli is right...we have deviated but this is good discussion...

Back to the original question...denial keeps us engaged initially...we deny the problem, the reality, the seriousness, we think it'll "go away"

Most of us (see...I generalize when I write) don't fall in love with them when they're puking all over our shoes, or have a needle sticking out of their arms.

Addicts are THE BEST liars and manipulators alive...they HAVE to be. The survival of the addiction demands it. They are sooo good because THEY believe the lies.

So you fall in love...then the truth comes out...but you can't see it for what it is. (there I go again...generalization with a pronoun! should I start saying "I"?) I used to think all my husband had to do was stop drinking and go to AA, and everything would be fine for us. That is how naive I was then, and I'm a smart girl!!

Eventually, I came to see the reality, and it was grim indeed. I chose to walk and I have no regrets about that decision.

As the old saying goes "Pain is inevitable...suffering is optional" I know life with my husband would be pain.

Some people have better outcomes. Some people get well and stay well. My husband still may and I truly hope he does, but I will not wait for it. It's not a life I can live with him...maybe if adultery didn't come with the addiction if would have been different...but that's just my story.

Make sense?

May 19, 2005
2:30 pm
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peacesoul
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I was not presuming, I was offering !
I was in your shoes and know how you feel. This is why people come to this site, to offer and get insight.
Are you forgetting, I just came out of a crazy relationship with an addict.

Lolli...you need a vodka shot..here hun, grab this and down it fast. You need to relax and smile

May 19, 2005
2:30 pm
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lollipop3
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I understand exactly what you're saying kc.

I'm sorry for those whose loved ones never found sobriety. I truely am. And I don't know if my boyfriend will stay sober or not but I don't consider myself to be in denial because I'm choosing to stand by him.

All I can say is....for today he is sober and I am very proud of him.

I'm also proud of myself for continuing my therapy and Al-anon, being educated on the subject and not allowing others to destroy that for me.

May 19, 2005
2:32 pm
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kc30
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Hey Lolli
I'm not offended...I am a self-professed drama queen and have no problem with that. It comes with my codie personality, and I have come to terms with that.

I agree with you! It's only when we stop enabling that the addict will be forced to stand still and deal with his issues. The best case scenario, is that they will be compelled to seek recovery.

The best best case is that they seek it and so do we...then we heal and grow together and break the old cycles and patterns!

There is a difference between supporting and enabling. I thought I was supporting my husband but I enabled him. I excused his behaviour because "He's sick. He has an illness. He can't help it- I can't leave him because he's sick and it's not his fault he has this horrid disease"

That wasn't support. That was making excuses for unacceptable behaviour.

I will speak for me...I am not saying you do this AT ALL...I do not know you, your story or your circumstances.

The point of the thread is why do people stay with an addict That is just one of the many many many reasons why people stay- obviously this is why Peace stayed, as she stated. They justify the behaviour because the person "is sick" (and yes they are sick, I believe that) and "can't help it" and we don't do anyone any favours doing that.

whattya think?
kc

May 19, 2005
2:35 pm
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peacesoul
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Lolli, I hate to say this, by staying with an addict, that makes you a drama queen along with the rest of us. But as you travel down your road, you will see this.
I do not say this with bitterness, but we all on the same island here.

May 19, 2005
2:35 pm
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lollipop3
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Peacesoul,

As a recovering alcoholic, vodka is not what I need. I'll have a cup of coffee though.

lollipop

May 19, 2005
2:35 pm
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tracylyn
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Lollie -

Can I stab at answering your question??

When we stand by and support our addict they get a sense of security about it. It sounds as though perhaps you threatened to leave so he got help and you stayed? He knows now that you'll stay, he might start using again and you'll threaten and he'll get help and you'll stay. This can turn into an endless cycle. They know our buttons, what to say to make us stay, what to do to make us stay and it just keeps going and going.

Now I'm in no way saying this is what will happen in your situation but this is what happens in a lot of situations including, but not limited to, drugs, physical abuse, adultry, it's all a cycle and when we stay we enable.

When I finally left my ex husband - he made the comment to me "I thought I could do anything to you and you'd stay" Exactly - and I did, for a long, long time until I had finally lost every little bit of my self esteem, self worth and self love.

t

May 19, 2005
2:39 pm
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peacesoul
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When I used to attented co addiction meetings, a former addict told me the WORST thing his wife did was stay and support him. When his wife finally left, it showed him his addictions had consequences. In turn, he wanted her and his family back so he struggled to get clean.

Well he is clean and has been for 15 years, all because his wife loved him enough to offer "tough love" and walk away.
Lolli, maybe you are supporting him more out of your fear of being alone then wanting to help him? Accepting his addiction is not helping him, it is enabling him.

May 19, 2005
2:40 pm
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peacesoul
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Coffee it is..... :- )

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