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am i not understanding?
May 17, 2005
4:31 pm
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Deena
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thanks lollypop...actually does mean a lot.

Deena

May 17, 2005
5:41 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Deena:

Whew! You do have questions... lol 🙂

For those that stay w/ their addicts... alot of it is insecurity; fear of the addict or fear of being alone or fear of the unknown; some it is just the way life is... after all, they grew up in a home with an addict so it is no different than living at home w/ mom or dad. There are as many reasons as there are stars in the sky. But, for each individual person, that is their reality. You may not take that behavior.... honey, watch what you say coz I said the same thing the second time around and I got exactly what I did want, but then soon found out it included what I didn't want. Make sense?

How we deal w/ it. The vest way we can. We find what works and we go with it. As for getting help. There again are as many excuses as there are stars in the sky.... no insurance, no money, fear, the other won't go, embarrassment, lack of knowledge as to what is available..... that's just a few off the top of my head.

I stayed in my firt marriage almost 12 years. Not that I didn't want out, but I had to wait till he was ready to throw me away. Otherwise, I honestly feel and know I would have probably ended up dead. My folks lived a frickin 8 blocks from us. Why did I not go to my parents? Fear. Fear of embarrassment, fear of failure, but mostly fear of him. He might have hurt them too. So see Deena, it's not a matter of someone just settling sometimes. Some women and men in these situations ilterally cannot leave and live. Oh, and then there is the issue of children.

May 18, 2005
8:09 am
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peacesoul
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Deena, my ex of 2 ½ years is a drug/booze and sex addict. Life with him was bittersweet. I came from a very healthy good background and never tolerated any form of addiction in my life. Not from friends nor from my ex of 11 yrs.
When I met my last ex, I knew he was smoking weed, but I had no clue he was into heavy drinking and sex addiction. Addicts hide their addiction well b/c they are ashamed of their behavior.
As the relationship started to progress I realized his addictions were deeper than I thought. But at this point, I started to love him and felt I could “save” him.

He cheated on me and when I busted him, he dumped me. Three months later he came back begging for a second chance swearing he had changed. Like I FOOL, I believed he was capable of change. I knew NOTHING about addictions at the time (this was over a year ago).
Well we stayed together anther year and during this time I read up and educated myself on addictions. My ex was conducting himself in very disgusting ways, but yes, I still could not leave him.
I was baffled at why I was so weak and wanted to stay !
Well once we broke up for good 4 months ago (today), I decided to seek help for my weakness and addiction to him. I made the CHOICE to read many books, go to intensive therapy and adhere to the NO CONTACT rule !
Did I become addicted to him and the chaos? Darn right!
People who stay with addicts become addicts themselves.
I, like you, Deena could never understand how people could tolerate being with an addict until I fell into the trap.

Having said this, I DO NOT think addiction is a disease. Addiction is a choice. This argument surrounding addiction being a disease or a choice has been brought up on these boards a few times and it makes me ill to think that some would classify an addiction as a disease.
Classifying an addiction as a disease takes the onus off the addict to say, “Well I have a disease and I can’t help it.”
Being diagnosed with cancer is not a choice, but smoking weed, putting blow up your nose and screwing everything that moves is a choice.
Every time an addict “falls off the wagon” he can claim he’s not cured of his disease? Wrong! That means he/she made more bad choices.

I am a smoker; I’m addicted to nicotine. Do I have a disease? If so, what disease do I have that makes me smoke? No, I make the choice to smoke. Yes, chemically, my body is addicted to the nicotine, but I can make the conscience choice at ANY time to quit and go through the withdrawal.
My opinion is, addictions are a weakness of character not a disease. We cannot rid cancer from our bodies by choice but we can decide to stop being an addict.
I’ve read many books from former addicts, one book said, the reason why people are addicts is because they feel such a loss of control about life in general, but when they delve into whatever their addition of choice is, the outcome is predictable, therefore they feel in control.
Humans are control freaks by nature. Every human on this planet has some form of addiction whether it be a healthy or an unhealthy one. We all want a controlled outcome to life.

Deena, I think it's cool that you are asking these questions to try to understand. This is what helps us grow. I don't think it was a judgemental question at all !

Peace

May 18, 2005
8:48 am
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lollipop3
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Hi Peace,

I just have one question for you.

Did you CHOOSE to become addicted to nicotine?

You did choose to smoke the first cigarette yes, but did you actually choose to become addicted. And because you CHOOSE to continue to smoke, do you take no responsiblity if you develop lung cancer?

My point is, we all make choices but we can't always control the outcome.

One more question.....You smoke, you know it is bad for you and could kill you, right.

Why don't you quit?

Just something to think about.

May 18, 2005
10:29 am
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peacesoul
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Of course I chose it..I knew nicotine was addictive when I CHOSE to smoke !
That does not mean I have a disease. It's means I am a dumb ass for killing my body with smoking!

OF COURSE you can control an outcome. I can control my addiction to nicotine if I chose to!

I have not yet quit b/c I am addicted to the motion of smoking and the nicotine, but that does not mean I have a disease..haha. That means I am not yet ready and choosing to quit.

May 18, 2005
11:10 am
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Deena
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Mama...yes I always have questions. I always got yelled at for being nosey, but I am actually trying to learn. Thanks for your response..It helps me a lot to understand the world of an addict. Since I am not in that situation it is hard for me to see people not being able to break free from a drug addict. Yes you are right I shouldn't say 'never' cause you really never know, huh?

Peace...You are the best at always telling it like it is. I guess I just am not that great at expressing myself on here yet. You said it perfectly. I too am a smoker (newport lights- ha!) I agree with you about the choice. That's what I was trying to say in my thread earlier. It's all about choices one makes. weak people usually make bad choices. Thanks for your input.

May 18, 2005
11:36 am
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peacesoul
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Lollipop, you say

"I hate to appear as though I am defending addicts or implying that one should stay in an abusive relationship, however, I have to ask....If you were in love with someone and they were diagnosed with cancer, would you leave"

I used to say this all the time to defend my addict boyfriend then my therapist told me, saying this is defending their addictions and actions.

Cancer and drug addiction are not the same. Like Kathy said, you cannot have a loving relationship with an addict but you can with someone that has cancer.

You will stop defending your boyfriend when you see how much you are destroyed at the end of it all.
I defended my ex and in retrospect, yes if he had the kind of cancer that would have dragged me down with him, you DAMN right I would have wanted to leave.

May 18, 2005
2:29 pm
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Deena
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The more I think of everyone saying how they deal with an addict..Im really trying to understand BUT it just sounds like excuses. I cannot see being soo afraid to leave or being totally embarrassed. IT would humiliate me to put myself thru being abused by a user. (No self esteem yes, just settling ) Maybe since I currently am not in that situation and like MAma said becareful to never say nevre BUT doesn't anyone ever learn from other people ( like here for instance on this site) or there own mistakes in life? Just wondering

Yes...im very courios

May 18, 2005
2:30 pm
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shyshy
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You can't compare addiction to something like cancer. A person with cancer doesn't steal and lie to feel better. Also, most often they either go into remission and things are better or they go on to be with God and that is the end of that. With an addicted person it just never ends unless they die. They know what they are doing and even though they are sick they CAN stop. People do it every day.

With Cancer you have no choice but to deal with it.

May 18, 2005
3:38 pm
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mamacinnamon
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I'm not fussin about your questions. Questions bring knowledge, and knowledge brings power. I admire your wanting to understand.

You said, "Doesn't anyone ever learn from other people (like here for instance on this site) or there own mistakes in life?"

I learned. I had a neighbor lady come to my house and introduce herself to me. She told me she had noticed "my situation" and understood coz she had lived what I was living. She said when she finally got out of her situation there was someone there to help her, and that the person that helped her asked she help others in the same situation. So, she was there to help me. She helped me to stand up for myself, to learn healthy living, etc. etc. So, I have since devoted my time to helping others that have been where I was. I believe God uses a person to help others in similar situations.

So, yes, I do think folks learn from their mistakes if they want to. I think if more would step forward to help instead of hiding their past in the closet then alot more folks would not be in these situations. But, it does take time and work to help others. (I say this coz my sister was a victim and she has pushed it in the closet and never dealt w/ it and she's a total mess.)

May 19, 2005
11:05 am
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lollipop3
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I've found that you just can't argue with the uneducated.

We are all entitled to our opinions and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Peacesoul- as far as my boyfried is concerned he is in recovery, he has been sober for 9 months and I am very proud of him.

Perhaps with a little change of attitude you could have had the same experience.

May 19, 2005
11:31 am
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peacesoul
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Lillipop...Ekkk, you're a total bitch !
Tracy I need you here to say FUCK YOU to lillipop for me ! 😉

Ok listen you nasty woman...I am probably much more educated than you. In fact I'm sure I am!
I've probably been through more shit in life than you, so watch your words young Jedi ! You do not know my story so you have no right to be so vile!

I am happy your B/F is in recovery, but TRUST ME, he will more than likely fall off the wagon, maybe then you will shut your trap ! And PERHAPS when he does (and he will), you will be a little more humble and kind !

Anyway..I will not put anymore energy into "duking" it out with such a nasty person like you...

May 19, 2005
11:34 am
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lollipop3
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Yes, peacesoul----you sound much more educated than me.

It's been pleasant chatting with you.

Have a great day.

May 19, 2005
12:39 pm
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peacesoul
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Lolli...maybe once you get into recovery yourself you will learn not not lash out with such disgust !

Wow, you blow me away. Go find another board if this is how you're going to behave. We do not want "your kind" here !!!

May 19, 2005
12:41 pm
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peacesoul
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If you are going to handle others opinions/ advice with lashing out calling us uneducated, then really, go someplace else !
How ignorant !

May 19, 2005
12:48 pm
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lollipop3
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I was not calling US uneducated...I was calling YOU uneducated.

You suggest that I need recovery...perhaps you should re-read this thread before you accuse me of being the one lashing out!

I do hope things get better for you.

May 19, 2005
1:04 pm
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tracylyn
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Hummmmmmmmmm...take off the gloves ladies cause the cat fight has begun.

Peacesoul - did you call me??? My ears were burning.

Anyway - my thought is this.

Lolli, why is someone uneducated if they do not have the same opinion/experience as you?

Perhaps you got defensive because you did stand by your bf and he's gotten help but many many times this is NOT the case - that's the reason for the entire "Codependency" movement...because we are enablers and "usually" if we continue to enable then the addictions continue a we begin to loose ourselves.

I watched my mother do this, spent her life enabling my father until he died at 60 due to alcoholism. She stood by him thinking things would change and then eventually just giving up.

If your situation works out then that's a true gift but also rare. And answer this - did you give up part of your life to get him thru this?

t

May 19, 2005
1:11 pm
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lollipop3
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Tracylyn,

I appreciate your input. To answer your question...yes, I did give up a lot. It was a very long hard road and I consider myself very fortuante.

To answer your other question, I generally do not consider people with differing opinions to be uneducated, however, it the case of peacesoul...I find her to be narrow-minded, ignorant and judgemental....perhaps that's why I got defensive.

And judging by her reponses.... I stand by my opinion.

May 19, 2005
1:23 pm
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tracylyn
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Seems that both of you are responding emotionally based on the experiences you have both had. No two experiences in dealing with addicts will be the same and perhaps we all need to realize this.

I think Peacesoul is lashing out out of anger for what you said. People take a lot of offense to being called uneducated. You could take the most educated person and they might know diddly squat about this sort of circumstance. Again, you both respond based on your own circumstances and the paths that your lives have taken. Her defensiveness is not based out of ignorance, it comes from pure, true, raw emotion from being called uneducated.

I'm pretty sure I'd take offense to that too. How 'bout you?

t

May 19, 2005
1:25 pm
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peacesoul
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Take the time to find my story somewhere on this web site hun and then you can judge me by calling me uneducated, narrow minded and ignorant!

And if you read my threads you would see I was in your shoes and had the strength to walk away and get help. I am 100 % recovered from my co addiction. Maybe you're just a little envious cause you are not there yet. That's cool. Lash out all you like !
I think anyone who claims someone is uneducated due to ONE opinion is the one with the narrow mind.

May 19, 2005
1:29 pm
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peacesoul
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Ok, maybe I will put more energy into this b/c let's face it, I may be recovered from my co-addiction, but I still have a weak spot for drama !!

Tracy, my gloves are off. Careful though Lolli, I just had a manicure!
Even uneducated women need to have nice nails :- )

😉

May 19, 2005
1:30 pm
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lollipop3
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Yes, I would.

Just like I took offense to her saying that people who call addiction a disease "make her ill" and I also took offense to her saying that "you will stop defending your boyfried when you see how much your life has been destroyed".

It seems to me if she's able to dish it out, she should be able to take it without resorting to calling me a bitch and asking someone else (namely, you) to tell me F#@$ you.

May 19, 2005
1:34 pm
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lollipop3
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I'm glad your not going to waste anymore energy "duking " it out with a person as nasty as me.

Having said that... if you still have a weak spot for drama, perhaps you're not as recovered as you claim to be.

Just a thought.

May 19, 2005
1:38 pm
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peacesoul
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Yes Lolli, I was stating my OPINION, not calling you names !
I was talking from my own experience, I think you just did not want to hear the truth !

Geez...get with it girl!

May 19, 2005
1:39 pm
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kc30
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Ahhh...drama! Thanks girls 🙂 (not making fun, just trying to lighten it up!!)

I thought the "gloves" would have come off awhile back on this subject...it is testy because any experience any of us have with an addict has probably been hell and pain, and it's been VERY personal.

Lollipop- have you taken a lot of crap from people in your life about standing by your b/f? People who thought you were wrong? It just seemed like a nerve got touched there. Nobody understood why I stood by my husband and I also got defensive about it...

I know that there are relationships that work out, and if both people are committed to recovery, I've heard incredible stories about people who make it (my counsellor was one of those stories and I had hoped we could have been as well)

But it's a slippery slope, and there are no guarantees because addiction can't be cured, and the risk is always there. My husband was sober when I fell in love with him...3 years and he fell off the wagon. It started so subtly...but within 2 years, it all blew to hell. I stood by him hoping we would find recovery and healing together, but it didn't happen for us. (he's sober but that's it- a stranger to me now)

Most of these relationships don't have a "happily ever after" at the end...and too many times, people just don't get that this is FOREVER. If you're cool with the risk, why be defensive?

BTW--Peace...you are one fiesty female...talk about speaking your mind ("nasty bitch"...youch- that was a little harsh!!!). I can just see the red hair flying...we could never accuse you of being passive-agressive! (Please don't ever get mad at me...you'll make me cry! ((smiles)) Why did you get so riled up? You're pretty thick skinned...emotional, but thick skinned....this hit a nerve for you to?

Sorry...I'm still waiting for the damn lawyer so I'm jumping into everyone else's life now!! (sigh)

peace gals
kc

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