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am i not understanding?
May 17, 2005
12:26 pm
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Deena
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Please help me out on this....How can soooo many people tolerate being in a relationship with a drug addict? Regardless of trying to help them- they need to help themselves. From what it sounds most are still using and not getting help. How do you deal with this? I know myself- I would not. Love? Please, if they are phucked up half the time they probably don't know the meaning of love.

I really don't want to sound mean but HELLO!
Maybe help me to understand...

May 17, 2005
12:36 pm
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lollipop3
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I hate to appear as though I am defending addicts or implying that one should stay in an abusive relationship, however, I have to ask....If you were in love with someone and they were diagnosed with cancer, would you leave.

Addiction is a disease. They can't help it anymore than that someone can help getting any other disease.

The problem with this one is that it is a three fold disease (physical, spiritual and emotional) that affects others as well.

A lot of addicts are not bad people, they are sick.

Unless we've walked in another's shoes, we have no right to judge. As humans, we should have compassion, not only for the addicts themselves but for those affected by their loved ones sickness.

May 17, 2005
12:39 pm
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kc30
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People tolerate drug users for the same reason we tolerate being lied to, mistreated, disrespected, unfulfilled, etc etc. It's for the same reason many of us stay with men we know aren't good for us...maybe they're addicts, maybe they're cheaters, narcissists, liars, whatever...

We stick around because we hope they'll change...we're afraid to be alone...we love them...we don't know how to break free...etc etc.

Addiction to a person is the same, no matter what the person's flaws are...does that make sense?

kc

May 17, 2005
1:08 pm
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Deena
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I knew that was coming lollypop. I am not judging anyone. I am asking to try to understand why people stay with addicts for years and years. No, it's not like cancer. You don't choose to have cancer. Yes, you choose to put the heroine needle in your arm or snort the line of coke. It's a choice. There is no comparison. I want to understand the reasoning...Kc thank you. It does help me to understand some of the folks here a little better. I guess for me that wouldn't be an option to stick around, but everyone is defferent AND NO lollypop I don't walk in there shoes...I CHOOSE not to.

May 17, 2005
1:21 pm
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lollipop3
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There is no difference. A disease is a disease.

Yes, someone does CHOOSE to take that first drink. Yes, they do CHOOSE to put that needle in their arm for the first time. Just like a person with cancer chooses to smoke cigarettes or chooses to sit in the sun.

However, they DO NOT CHOOSE to develop the disease of addiction.

May 17, 2005
1:26 pm
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kc30
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Did you know the term codependancy used to be co-alcholic (or addict) People who were treating alcholics started to notice a startling and distinctive pattern of behaviour among the non-drinkers in the family. That is where codependancy was born.

I learned it first hand with my husband, an alcholic. We're drawn to certain types...codependants are typically caretakers and rescuers...we want to help people...we want to solve their problems. What greater deed than to rescue an addict from themselves?

It's the stuff of insanity because you CAN'T rescue an addict from themselves...but they LIKE for you to think maybe you can, and they are master manipulators.

To make it worse...they have 2 personalities...the addict and the person struggling against the illness. We see the person struggling and we want to help, and they start to get better, then WHAM. The addict is back.

It's really, really phucked up and it completely and totally can take over your life...it's the exact some craziness that many are living with now...you know it's not good for you, but for some reason...you can't get out.

I hate addictions. They destroy good people. I've seen what happened to my husband...he was sober when I met him...and he was truly a different person. It's just sad.

kc

May 17, 2005
1:27 pm
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lollipop3
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I hate it too, kc

May 17, 2005
1:29 pm
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looking for serenity
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Why I stayed with an addict for years...

I wanted to believe that the man I married 10 years ago was still there. His moments of clarity (not high) he wanted to change and asked me for help. I had seen him be agood amn and hoped and believed he would come back.

Also he kept the drug "thing" hidden from me. I believe myself to be a very confident, secure, smart wo
man yet seeing with my heart was easier than seeing with my eyes. If I did well quite simply I would have to do something about it.

Also, addiction IS a disease. It is like cancer. No, they do not choose to have cancer, but it takes over their life. Same with drugs/alcoholism/sex addiction (insert your addiction. They will go to any means to get that high, it is an ugly cycle. I have met several addicts and not ever heard the fact that they were joyous in snorting or shooting up. These people are shameful, and quite often suicidal. I used to be a believer in the philosophy of "nope it is not an addiction he chooses to do it", I went to a family session during his rehab program, and I am grateful for it because I then understood. So in my experience if I had not lived it I would have not believed it.

May 17, 2005
1:29 pm
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Rasputin
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Ditto lollipop!!!

I think we all have our own mishaps and tragedies. We give up so easily and bai out so quickly. However, this is not an ivitation to condone any kind of addiction.

How about someone who is depressed and who is in denial about his/her depression. Depression is as addictive/abusive as an other addiction. The fact that they refuse to treat and seek counseling is and should not be tolerated. A depressed person can do lots of harm to themselves and the people around them. It is just cause it is not considered as threatening as drug/alcohol addiction, we lolerate and condone it, whe we Should not!

Thank you lollipop for your post. There is so much wisdom and insight in it!!!

May 17, 2005
1:32 pm
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lollipop3
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Depression is a sickness, just as the others we have discussed.

It's easy to judge or give advice but unless you're in it and dealing with human emotions, people really have no idea how truely complicated it can be.

May 17, 2005
1:35 pm
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kc30
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Wow...you just nailed it for me Serenity. You just answered something that has been nagging at me...I know what my husband is like now, and that life with him is pain and misery. So why do I still feel pulled back?

Because I want to believe that wonderful man I fell in love with is real, and that he is not so fargone.

But it doesn't matter...he will always have the dark side...the addicted side (his is alcohol and sex) and I just can't risk it.

I've seen him on top of the world, and wallowing around in the gutter, lying, cheating and hurting everyone around him, destroying everything that is good...it's phucking heartbreaking.

BUT...sick or not, he is still responsible. He still has choices. He knows right from wrong. I used to enable the hell out of him with "it's a disease" thinking. Yes, it is a disease, and there is not cure, but a person can seek help. And he's crawled out of the gutter before...he knows what to do....he's done AA and it's worked.

Sorry for taking over your thread Deena!!

This helped me figure something out...so thanks!

kc

May 17, 2005
1:40 pm
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lollipop3
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I agree with you kc.

I believe that addiction is a disease but you are absolutely correct that they are RESPONSIBLE.

I can only speak for myself, but to me, that is the difference between staying and leaving. I have ended relationships where my partner refuses to take responsiblity for his actions.

I have chosen to stay in my current relationship because he does take repsonsiblity and is trying to change.

May 17, 2005
1:42 pm
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Deena
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Very true lollypop...Basically, All I was looking for was some insight on how people actually can deal with that...Anyway thanks for responding. It helped me to see things a little differently from all sides. I am a little opionated at times so sorry if offending anyone. I had my share of dealings with an alcoholic as well so I do understand the 'addiction' you all speak of. Thanks

May 17, 2005
1:46 pm
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lollipop3
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Now that I've answered why I deal with it....I'll tell you HOW I deal with it....

Al-Anon, friends, this site, counseling, taking psychology classes, walks, music, my pets, family, books..books...books, long baths, going to AA meeting, etc. etc.

I never said it was easy! lol

May 17, 2005
1:47 pm
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kc30
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Hey Deena...you definitely didn't offend me 🙂 I could never have understood it until I lived it...it just seems to obvious from the outside, but on the inside, YIKES!

Lollipop...mine has not really taken responsibility...he's the "victim" always.

It's a waste of a beautiful man, but what's done is done. I'm out, and that's the important thing...for me and my kids.

They're all bloody alchoholics in my family...mother, father, aunts, grandparents, stepdady...no wonder I married one.

May 17, 2005
1:50 pm
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lollipop3
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Same background here kc.

We can only do the best we can with what we have.

If leaving was the right thing for you, then I'm proud of you. That is a very difficult thing to do and it takes a lot of courage and strength.

You should be proud of yourself....stay strong.

May 17, 2005
1:50 pm
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kathygy
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You have a healthy, loving relationship with someone who has cancer but you cannot have that with an addict.

May 17, 2005
1:52 pm
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Deena
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HEy Kc...get your own thread (ha Joking) that's okay. I was feeling a little bombarded at the moment so I am glad you broke it up a bit. Glad to have helped you figure something out. Okay im jumping outta here..going back to the usual threads. I feel like I stepped on some toes.

May 17, 2005
1:52 pm
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kc30
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Hey Kathy...touche and well said 🙂

Believe me Lollipop...I would have stood by him through it all if only he would have tried. I stayed as long as I could, and I have no regrets 🙂

May 17, 2005
1:53 pm
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lollipop3
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kathy,

you are so right.

That is exactly why it is so difficult to have compassion for those with addictions.

May 17, 2005
1:54 pm
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Deena
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okay..didn't leave yet...kathy that is so true. I think I wasn't getting my point across. What you said is basically what I am talking about..

May 17, 2005
1:55 pm
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lollipop3
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Deena,

I hope you don't think you stepped on my toes.

To me that's what this site is all about....honesty and understanding.

lollipop

May 17, 2005
2:19 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Deena:

I didn't read all the responses written, but came on down to let you know that.....

I have been married to an addict for 13 years. We did separate once because of his drug use. He cleaned up and has done his best. Life with an addict is not perfect, but neither is any other relationship. I think the reason I have stayed with him this long is that when he falls off the wagon, which has been 6-7 times in the 13 years, he gets back up and tries again. He works hard to stay clean. And I have no doubt in my heart that he loves me. He wouldn't keep trying to stay clean if he didn't.

I had a horrible first marriage and swore I would never live w/ another addict. Well, I got another addict and as long as he is faithful and he tries to stay clean I can ask for no more. He works 7 days a week to support his family and is a good man. Alot of addicts are good folks that just lost their way.

You said "if they are phucked up half the time they probably don't know the meaning of love." What does being phucked up have to do with love???? You could fine any excuse to say someone does not love you. It's the actions that count. And yes, I do believe an addict can love just like any other person.

That's my take on the subject. Hope it helped some.

May 17, 2005
2:33 pm
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Deena
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You all have helped me tremendously. I thank you. Mama...In your situation, your husband sounds like a hard worker who is trying very hard. I applaud that. And I thank you for responding, I am actually being able to understand. However, in the same breath what about the rest of the bunch who settle for the addicts who do not get the help or try to stop? I know it is no different now than any other addiction, but to me it is a little different. I guess I just wouldn't tolerate that or being physically abused either. I just have to wonder how one deals with that?
I know most addicts are not bad people- but how hard is it to make the decision to get help? Thank you all for responding.

Thanks Lollypop...I did feel a little awkward for asking the question in the first place. I really honestly am trying to understand people and different situations that I have not been in.

May 17, 2005
2:58 pm
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lollipop3
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Deena,

In my opinion (for all it's worth)....the fact that you are trying to understand puts you heads above most.

lollipop

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