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Am I crazy???
December 10, 2003
2:06 am
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Hermione
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I have made a date to meet with my husband - am I nuts?? He tried to tell me that I was crazy but the only nutty thing about me is the fact that I have organised to meet with him - I am one sick puppy!!! I have no idea what I am trying to achieve - I do not want to go back to what we had - I just think there is more to this than I know already - he was the one who left me but I was the one who said I didn't want to continue in the marriage - he put terms and conditions on me if I wanted him to return - I said that his terms and conditions were not based on reality - they were based on his fears - I know that its up to me to decide if it really is goodbye for the last time or to see if he has in some way softened to realise the truth of the matter. God knows - I have no idea what I am doing - it just felt right at the time! HEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

December 10, 2003
4:07 am
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vegas
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I don't know your situation...but, if things work out and you and hubby decide to reconcile and see...will you go to counselling? Will the trust be there? Is the love still there? Are you both willing to work at working things out?

I'm sure you've already thought of these things and asked yourself them over and over. If you're like me, you probably don't know what to think, what to do.

Maybe ask your husband. Hear what he has to say. And then listen to your heart and to your gut when you get his replies. And, of course, think it out.

Or, maybe this is the goodbyes you need.

Like I said, I don't know your story...but, if you're codep. pls. be careful and not get caught up again. I may not be the best one to give advice...as I don't always practice what I preach. I just get tossed about in the wind, wherever the wind blows me...wherever my ex wants me to go. I don't want that for you, Hermione...take it from me, it sucks.

you'll be fine,
vegas

December 10, 2003
8:00 am
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HARRYO
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Hey guys. How about the lyrics
of the song Crazy?

CRAZY
I'm crazy
crazy for feeling so lonely
I'm crazy
crazy for feeling so blue

I know
you'd love me as long as you wanted
then someday
leave me for somebody new

(bridge)
worry
why do I let myself worry
wondring
what in the world did I do

crazy
for thinking that my love could hold you
I'm crazy for crying
I'm crazy for trying
I'm crazy for loving you

December 10, 2003
10:20 am
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mj
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Hugs Hermione....

I don't think you are crazy...you just want to be sure that there isn't a reason to not go forward with your own life. Hopefully this will help you.

December 10, 2003
10:35 am
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Anonymous
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Harryo,

What a coincidence. I heard that song today. I love that song.

December 10, 2003
1:10 pm
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Ladeska
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Hm,m,m.......felt "right at the time". Now there's an interesting statement. Would be something like - impulsive shopping maybe? Getting talked into buying that car which "wasn't a good deal" but it felt right at the time...

This is indicative of what con artists thrive on and would be out of business if they didn't have it going on and it's...

the ability to - convince someone to make a decision, impulsively, based on emotion, that they wouldn't necessarily make if they stopped and really analyzed it and thought about it.

But you being here and asking for help - tells me - you know what you did. You know that you responded, emotionally, impulsively to doing this - which, I'm quite sure - is something he wants because you are useful to him in some way.

So to me, it was an impulsive decision, felt right at the time, you are having second thoughts about it but the wheel is already in motion now so you feel like you should just be committed to doing it anyways.

But isn't this part of the cycle, Hermoine? Isn't this the way it always goes though? He's got you so trained now that - you just do it with very little prompting.

We do love to be sold to..... I don't know what that is. Maybe it's the same reason people are gambling addicts. Maybe it's the rush of being pulled into this game of chance that has such high stakes in it and the lure of things we like - but only sprinkled sparingly here and there. Not a fair trade or good investment but - there's always the chance of hitting the big time...

We do get very caught up in this kind of cycle and that's why some people are very, very rich and others are very, very poor. It's not because pepole finally hit the big time either. It's because the con artists - robbed them and all the victims had to show for anything was the thrill of the dance. Is this what you're addicted to maybe?

December 10, 2003
1:12 pm
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gingerleigh
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Hey Hermione. Maybe before the meeting, take some time to do some writing. Write out your boundaries, what you will and will not put up with, I don't mean from hubby, but from life in general. Draw your life on paper. Then have the meeting. Put a time limit on the meeting, and go someplace quiet and take out that list. Was the meeting consistent with the list? Do you feel different, shaken, than you did when you were grounded and feeling in your zone, then you know something is up. If however, things feel OK, maybe true change IS in the air...

Keeping my fingers crossed for you and hoping for the best...

December 10, 2003
1:46 pm
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complexroxanne
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Hi Hermione,

I felt I had to respond to your post because I was in sort of the same situation as you are now.

My BF and I broke up a while back...I found this site which helped me to understand myself better...thought I was doing good...got an invitation to dinner by him..went to dinner and now we are seeing each other again. I can't tell you that all is good because it is not.

I didn't even want to tell anybody on this site that I took him back ...Especially Ladesksa who was a great help to me. Its as if I am embarresed...like I am a drug addict and my BF is my drug of choice. Its like I relapsed...thats the only way to describe it.

However something Ladeska said in another response to you was:

"But the thing is - you have more knowledge under your belt now. You're not spinning like you were. So it's not like you're going into this meeting - the same person, ya know?"

I can't tell you how true that is!!

Actually even when we were having dinner I was going against my gut feeling that this wasn't going to work...but I wanted it to. So now I am back to the beginning but with more knowledge under my belt to deal with it. Again I am hoping that things will change for us but the reality is ...it probably won't. Some part of me feels that I want to wait until after the holdays in order to really figure it all out.

Please don't beat yourself up about it...only time will tell if you've made the right decision.

I hope I helped in some way

L-

December 10, 2003
3:20 pm
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HARRYO
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I heard this one a few years ago....
The definition of (crazy) insanity
is doing the same thing, the
same way and expecting the same results.

December 10, 2003
4:59 pm
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Ladeska
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complexroxanne....Sweetheart, please don't feel that way with me, okay? Serously, don't. I only talk like I do because I've walked this road. And it doesn't mean that "my road" is everyone else's road either. I share my stuff, "my" opinions, what I've gathered from life's experiences and from others and from what I read and study but people are very unique and my truths are not going to be everyone else's truths by a long shot.

We all go back, we really do. And sometimes people are okay with the price they have to pay, to get what they treasure out of the relationship. It might not be what we would pay....but it's okay with them personally. All I want to do is stir the waters, help people critically think and sometimes I'm a little harsh in order to get people out of the zombie zone and rigorously defend what they are doing. Because that process and exercise - brings things to light so they can be - critically examined. That's all I'm after here.

And people have to go through certain things, too - before they "get it". So no need to be embarrassed at all, especially with me, I went back, too, believe me, been there, done that and have about 20 t-shirts to prove it.

Another thing that I see with us in general is that - we've been raised on fairy tales, paperback novels, movies, T.V. that all tells us about the man who is the "bad boy" and yet....he has this silver lining and COULD BECOME a prince....and the KEY to that amazing magical transformation is "the love of a very special woman"! Scary, scary mindset if we believe this one....

It's like we don't want to get to that point that says - I've invested all this time, put all this energy and hope and love and trust and belief into something that may never of had the propensity for being what I projected in my own mind. But the interesting thing is - we've learned alot, it's not like we've stood still here, we've shed a few skins, evolved and are wiser creatures. Maybe we would have learned it from a textbook but probably "not". (smile)

It's hard to look at someone and really do an evaluation as to - what isn't in line with our aspirations for them when we squint and cross our fingers and look only at the inconsistent times when they can be "good boys".

It's also okay to talk back to - what we've been taught, or at the very least to challenge it.

Everyone has their journey though, they get to their truth - as they get to it. Throughout all of this though, be very kind to yourself and accept the fact that it's not about being perfect, or arriving. It's about being committed to the path that is always learning, always growing and always challenging ourselves.

December 10, 2003
6:52 pm
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gingerleigh
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Anyone listen to pop radio? The messages in those songs are so pardonay-mah-fransay FUCKED up. We raise bloody hell about violence on TV teaching our kids that guns are cool, and get embarassed at explicit rap lyrics. Oh yes, and obesity is an epidemic in the US at least due in large part to marketing... how many of you can still recite the McDonald's commercial chant from the 80s "Big Mac, Fillet 'O Fish, Quarter Pounder, French Fries, Icy Coke, Thick Shake, Sundaes and Apple Pie... you deserve a break today..."

I think maybe pop radio needs to be attacked a bit, given the epidemic of codependency we're seeing. As much as I love Dido, every time I hear her "White Flag" song I want to throw up, pretty as it is...

Read the lyrics and tell me what you'd respond to a poster who would post this here in this forum...

http://lyric.pragard.com/view......x?sid=9602

December 10, 2003
7:07 pm
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Ladeska
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Guess I'd say - looks like you're pretty resigned to going down with the ship.

It is amazing when you look at the "chants" that are in songs. And that's exactly what they are - chants. When you break it down, look at and go - what the hell is this saying? It's kinda scary. And we wonder why we are programmed and walk a certain way like zombies?

Kinda have to watch - what little ears here? Or at least - be discerning and not just go into a trance while listening or viewing. That takea alot of vigilence though. Not easy.

I read something not too long ago about what our brain does when we watch T.V. and it's a bit spooky because the door is wide open to accept everything as fact without doing alot of critical thinking. We're just in that mode of zoning. Guess that mode gets really bad about 3 a.m. im the morning because all the infomercials go after everyone like mad then! HEY guys, their brains are really mush now, won't take much to get them to pick up the tellie and whip out the M/C. Just talk real loud and repeat it over and over again.

December 11, 2003
12:25 am
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Zinnie
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Hi Hermione,

I guess just listen to what he has to say, and try to be as "neutral" as possible.

Like I have said on another post, it only took one really bad relationship for me to say "NO, NOT EVER AGAIN" - but, as you will see if you look at my thread (Family the ties...), you will see that it seems when it comes to my family, no matter what for the longest time, no matter what crap they pulled on me, if they needed something I would do it.

Ginger, I agree with what you are saying about songs we hear. I also agree with your take on Dido's lyrics to "White Flag" - but, interestingly for some reason when I hear that song, for some reason I always think of my first husband. The reason being, is that no matter what, or no matter how long there is always a special place in my heart for him and I will always love him. When he died I thought I would never find love again. I did, and I have been more than blessed in my life and marriage with my husband now. I would not trade my life for anything, but yet there are still times, that I think of him and wonder what might have been.

Love,

Z.

December 11, 2003
9:22 am
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HARRYO
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This song is always helpfull to me
when I think about being crazy
and misunderstood:

Vincent (Starry, Starry Night)

Starry, starry night
Paint your palette blue and gray
Look out on a summer's day
With eyes that know the darkness in my soul
Shadows on the hills
Sketch the trees and the daffodils
Catch the breeze and the winter chills
In colors on the snowy linen land

Chorus:
Now I understand
What you tried to say to me
How you suffered for your sanity
How you tried to set them free
They would not listen they did not how
Perhaps they'll listen now

Starry, starry night
Flaming flowers that brightly blaze
Swirling clouds in violet haze
Reflect in Vincent's eyes of china blue
Colors changing hue
Morning fields of amber grain
Weathered faces lined in pain
Are soothed beneath the artist's loving hand

Chorus:
For they could not love you
But still your love was true
And when no hope was left inside
On that starry, starry night
You took your life as lovers often do
But I could have told you Vincent
This world was never meant for one as
beautiful as you

Starry, starry night
Portraits hung in empty halls
Frameless heads on nameless walls
With eyes that watch the world and can't forget
Like the strangers that you've met
The ragged men in ragged clothes
The silver thorn of bloody rose
Lie crushed and broken on the virgin snow
Now I think I know
What you tried to say to me
How you suffered for your sanity
How you tried to set them free
They did not listen they're not listening still
Perhaps they never will

December 11, 2003
10:53 am
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mj
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Love that song...HarryO.
Even had the print by Vincent ....
After awhile, I decided that I wanted more positive lyrics and frame of mind so I gave it to a friend who now enjoys the print. Why is it the most creative artists who express their deepest emotions....seem to share their souls with us through their art?

Hugs Hermione...hope friday goes well for you.

December 11, 2003
5:37 pm
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Hermione
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Thankyou everyone for your posts - love the songs Harry - I'm an artist - and I have always been inspired by Vincent -

Well, I know I'm not crazy - except in a fun kind of way - letting my hair down so to speak. I can go into this meeting with confidence in my sanity and clarity - I will not stand for any minimising, belittling, or be lulled into a false sense of security. I have my objectives and I will remain on track.
I went to counseling yesterday and identified that it is OK to want to see him - that all in all I can separate his behaviour from who he is and that is why I am living in confusion. Making arrangements to meet him is me looking for a way out of the confusion - I have worked on what to say and how to say it so that he doesn't end up all defensive etc. -but I am not fooling myself - I may walk away even more confused - but this in itself will help me onto the next step - I can view this all from a distance and I feel like I won't be sucked in emotionally again - I guess this is why I feel strong enough to meet with him - I'm looking for any sort of change or shift in him and realistically - if its not there then I'm out of there - I know that even though I arranged the meeting I can still leave whenever I want to - I have set my boundaries - it will only last for 30 mins, in a public space. I am nervous but ready. I will take you all with me - esp. one of campers mental images of Mr. T!!! I am prepared to sit back and breathe if he starts to project stuff on to me - if I completely stuff it up - all will not be lost - life will go on - there will be other opportunities!! I'll let you all know how I go - I'm feeling good at this point but I still have the day to get through - luckily it will be spent with good friends around me!!
Thanks again to you all - this is something I want to do for myself and if I can keep to my path on my new 'tracks' I know I will walk away empowered in my own growth!
H

December 11, 2003
9:46 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Harry,

ahhhhhhhhh... love that song too.

Z.

December 11, 2003
11:58 pm
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Hermione
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Well - he's piked out - with a great excuse as per usual - its geniune I'm sure - so another time it will be - atleast I am prepared now so whenever it happens I am ready!!
Thanks again to you all - I'll stay in touch - H

December 12, 2003
9:27 am
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HARRYO
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Hermoine,

I always heard about the Aussie
coloqialisms. Piked out?
Is that like punked out? Stood
you up?

Speaking of Aussie bands how about
ELO?

Can't Get it Out of my Head

Midnight, on the water
I saw the ocean's daughter
Walking on a wave's chicane
Staring as she called my name.

CHORUS
And I can't get it out of my head
No, I can't get it out of my head
Now my old world is gone for dead
'Cos I can't get it out of my head.

Breakdown, on the shoreline
Can't move, it's an ebb tide
Morning don't get here tonight
Searching for her silver light.

REPEAT CHORUS

Bank job, in the city
Robin Hood & William Tell & Ivanhoe & Lancelot
They don't envy me
Sitting 'till the sun goes down
In dreams the world keeps spinning round & round.

REPEAT CHORUS

REPEAT CHORUS

December 13, 2003
1:46 am
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Hermione
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Hi Harry,

Yeah he rang atleast and told me that his son had been beaten up by a bully at school ( always used the kids to hide behind in the past ) and that he was going to see the Principal of the school ( at 5.00pm on a Friday?? - I don't think so?? ) anyway he was honest in saying that he wanted to have all his "faculties" available to him and that he was still really angry over what had happened to his son so he needed to do it another time. He's gone off partying all weekend so I guess he's got his priorities right???? Anyway - I've had a great day - found my son's Christmas present that I was worried had sold out and I've been invited to a Latin dance night - my friend gave me a gorgeous dress to wear and my Mum has my son so if you can't beat em join em!!!!

Australian - "piker" - person who doesn't follow through with what they say they are going to therefore "piked out" same thing - implies cowardly behaviour!!
I shouldn't be so judgemental I guess but if he was that concerned about his son surely he would be wanting to be with him rather than off partying!! I don't get it! I think he's just got a problem with seeing me but doesn't have the guts to be honest. When he's ready it will happen - he needs to feel in control of the situation!

I'm listening to Billy Holiday - my friend gave it to me - we had fun singing to it last night - "no they can't take that away from me"

Have a good weekend Harry,
H

December 13, 2003
1:55 am
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Zinnie
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Hi Hermione,

Some how in the long run, I'm sure it is the best for you though.

Glad to know you are o.k. with his actions though.

Love,

Zinnie

December 13, 2003
2:43 am
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Hermione
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Yeah thanks Zinnie - I feel like I'm getting over it ( however slowly!! - I am eternally impatient!) and my counsellor has been great - she believes I am dealing with everything really well as I am allowing myself just to be however I'm being within the moment - ups downs all over the place - but when it comes down to it - its just little ol me in my head, body and soul and I can only be me and no one else so I may as well continue on my path and see what life has to offer! And if life is offering me a night of dance to a Latin beat I better get going and have a shower!!!! I'll check in later, love and hugs to you all, H

December 13, 2003
11:45 am
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Ladeska
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Good for YOU!! You are so right about everything here. You go girl!! Well that was so "typical" of him, huh? Coward. Yeah, I'm so sure he does want to get his faculties about him when he sees you. LOL! What a hoot!

He's trying to figure out a way to spin you, no doubt. Knowing, of course that, you have grown here and that you are the same person, but you're not. This meeting, when it does happen, will be interesting to say the very least. Might even be amusing. (smile)

I'm so bad these days, that if someone does something like to me, I quickly counter it with - when they do decide to talk or whatever, I do something like have a time limit on it. I make up something or really have something else planned so that - I put a stipulation on things as well. Well, I've got a couple of hours here, but after that - I'm doing so and so. So, le'ts get right down to it.

I was married to this guy for one year, who was the control freak from hell itself. And at the end, when I picked a really good therapist and he had agreed to a six week session of really investigating where we are - it was quickly apparent that he had no intention of doing his part.

The first meeting was spent with him blaming me and telling the therapist that he thought I was going through menopause, so THAT is why I am the way I am. Wanted to pay for me to go get tested. Um...I haven't gone through that yet and it's been ten years now. LOL!

The next meeting, he just forgot to put gas in the car, so he ran out, was half an hour late. So we had 30 minutes and he blamed me again after he got there. Third meeting - he didn't show up at all. The therapist called me in anyways and told me that - he wasn't on board for really being an equal here in all this at all and by this little demonstration he showed me his real colors. That's why he had us agree to this six week thing because he knew - he couldn't keep his end of the agreement.

Over time I had started really noticing that every time a boundary was put up, he broke it, no matter what it was. Was just his insolent way of giving you the high sign. I quickly came to the point of, everytime you bust a boundary - you immediately pay for it with a consequence, and it's hard and fast and won't move. He HATED THAT! Good.

He came to my work shortly after that and made a big scene. Next day he got served with a restraining order. He broke it and he got taken to court. He pestered me where I was staying with a Deputy Sheriff and his wife and they wouldn't allow him on the property anymore. And because he used to call me at all hours of the night, that was put in the restraining order as well, no phone contact.

But it's a good way to see where someone is coming from - when you put down boundaries and see what they do. See here, with this meeting, he's already put the ball in "his" court now by delaying it. Same tactic as my ex did with running out of gas, etc. YOU must wait on HIM kind of thing. And you have to turn back around and see things like this as a breech of boundary and give him a consequence of some kind. Maybe you won't be so available when "he's ready". Maybe he will have to "wait on you" this time. And the thing is - if he is who you need him to be and if he's sincere and respectful of you - him waiting - will be just fine. Him having to pay a consequence instead of HIM imposing his will all over the place - will be okay.... So try to get into this place with your thinking and how you respond to him.

So glad you went dancing!!! And so glad you have a good therapist! Most awesome. You're being true to yourself and letting yourself be where you are and feel your feelings. Very, very good, just keep walking that path.

December 13, 2003
7:17 pm
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Hermione
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Wow - and what a path!!! Isn't it always the way - the Universe never ceases to amaze me - last night was the first time in a long time that I was attracted to someone new - I met a really interesting guy - he was respectful and gorgeous and luckily a 'friend of a friend' - do you know what was going through my head?? Ladeska's Checklist - and how nothing needed to happen in order for me to go - 'there are other options out there' - so now I can see that Zinnie was right

'Some how in the long run, I'm sure it is the best for you though'

Who would expect such a turn around! I chose to view the delay in meeting my husband as a good thing and it has proved to be. I now have the opportunity to imagine other possibilities. I had been viewing myself as 'isolated' and starting to wonder how I would ever meet anyone else - I feel like the Universe just gave me a 'taste' of how I had been limiting myself by my own thoughts. It was good to feel attracted to someone else - and not have to act on it - just accept the feeling as that of potential for endless possibilities. This path of growth suddenly feels like its expanding - the 'blinkers' are slowly being removed and I am beginning to see things that I wouldn't allow myself to see in the past - its very freeing - did I start all this by asking my husband to meet with me???
H - probably just a 'hungover' philosophical rant!

December 13, 2003
9:00 pm
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Ladeska
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Good for you!!! Awesome! Someone told me something cool the other day. He said - nothing is impossible because - I AM POSSIBLE. Cool saying! No limitations, sweets. Just be wise and also leave the sides of the box open so you can see opportunities and not have tunnel vision.

So glad you had fun!! You needed that and so nice you met someone!! Very awesome. You just never know...what the future could hold here...huh?

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