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ALERT! ALERT! Help! (2bstrong)
April 25, 2007
2:03 pm
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taj64
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Please stop the insanity now. You have two choices. Stay in it and suffer more or stop it and have control over your life. I read all your "parts" and from I sense is that his lack of commitment to you was not you at all but that he was committed to someone else or something else. It was not you. It reaked of a player. You have someone else in your life. You will lose this person and everything you work hard for to be drawn into someone who is very casual like and though it pulls at you, it is easy for him to go in and out of your life because that is the way he chooses this to be and because he can. Don't allow it no matter how strongly you feel about him. He is not your friend and friends don;t use each other this way. Keep your distance and stay strong.

April 25, 2007
2:09 pm
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O.K... I am definitely going to be in the minority here, BUT... I think that everyone just may be jumping the gun with the assumption that Dr. B. wants 2b back... that she is 2nd choice... that he's coming around because he knows she wants him.

I disagree. I think that 2b is a woman that he respects and feels comfortable with. She has always been completely open and honest with him and I think he admires that immensely (mainly because those are traits that are totally lacking within himself, for whatever reason). I think he is a very screwed up man. I don't think he intended to hurt 2b NOR do I think he is aware of the magnitude of the hurt he caused her because she has been extremely restrained in her responses to him (especially after the engagement announcement).

SHE was the one that called their relationship off. SHE walked away. HE is the one that contacted her again... and when he did...She was cool and matter of fact... After the engagement announcement, she said she was happy for him and asked him about his fiance... AND shared the fact that she had been dating a nice "young doctor" and was very happy. Those are not things that would lead him to believe that she was hurting or pining away for him.

She has maintained control and HE is the one out of control! HE is the one that won't or can't leave her alone! The question is WHY??? WHY did he (out of the blue) send her a text message?? WHY did he feel the need to share his engagement with her??? and WHY did he THEN feel the need to tell her that it was over???? There are a lot of WHY's!!

Sooooo... If she chooses to respond, I don't look at it as her trying to get back together with Dr. B., nor do I think that he would perceive it in that way. I look at it as an opportunity to finally get answers from him... to ask the questions she's been struggling with for so long!

The answer could be as simple as he respects her and views her as a trusted friend and confidante, couldn't it? That he values her in his life?

I don't look at him as an evil man. I look at him as a severe, severe commitmentphobe! I don't think for one second that 2b should run back into his arms... not without his getting some deep, in-depth therapy for himself.

My point is that if the purpose of his e-mail was to get her back because his engagement fell through, then that does not explain why he told her about it in the first place (if he was soooo happy, why was he contacting an ex-gf?).... so, basically... I don't feel that it is cut and dry.

I think he is a mess! Ya know, I really feel bad for these guys! Can you imagine living their lives???? Ugh!!!! Bouncing from one relationship to another... trying to fill that emptiness inside of themselves. Living on the "thrills" to suppress the deep pain and unhappiness they feel?? Pretending to be strong and in control when all they really feel is intense FEAR?? Relationships are like band-aides to them. They cover up their ugly old wounds with a new pretty face but, eventually, the newness of their latest conquest wears off and they are left staring at at the same poor, empty soul that they brought INTO the relationship in the first place. SAD!

The common denominator in Dr. B's history of relationship failure's is DR. B.!!!! It has NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING to do with his ex-wife, 2b OR this newest woman... not one darn thing!!!

2b, there is nothing you can do for him until he realizes that he is the reason for his inability to sustain a loving relationship and WANTS to do something to change. It's HIS problem, so, don't try to "fix" him, ok??

My advice would be... get your answers, find some closure and move on with your life...

TC

April 25, 2007
2:10 pm
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feelingfree
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2b~

OK- yes, now I'm obsessing about YOUR situation.. lol. I must admit, it sure is a nice diversion from my own insanity lately.. 😉

Seriously tho.. I want you to remember one more thing. YOU ARE THE WOMAN! You know it (or should!), WE know it.. and Dr. B knows it. But Dr. B BLEW IT A LONG TIME AGO when he hurt you over and over and over!!

He won't find any better, ever. You are and have always BEEN too good for him. Stay strong !!

April 25, 2007
2:11 pm
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2bstrong
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Hmmm. Interesting comments. I feel very glad that we've had all of the conversations on the "Uh Oh" thread that we did. Everything Dr. B is doing is so transparent. EVERYTHING we discussed is true!

I WILL respond to his note. I'm not sure when...I will give it some time. As far as the responses that I am his "second choice" and I should be his first...

...He has made no choice of anyone, as is consistent with his behavior. He's a runner and what he is doing is pathological. He has done this in every relationship in his life. His marriage only lasted nine months, and he told me he knew it was over on the honeymoon. Unless he has counseling for his fear of intimacy and commitment he will never change. I know this. I feel empowered that he has contacted me again. It means in some way, I am stuck in his head. Perhaps he is doing this with others. Hard to say.

I am not going to play games with him. Whatever my response is, it is going to be honest.

April 25, 2007
2:18 pm
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2bstrong
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And the email thing for some reason doesn't bother me at all. Our last communication was by email.

I had another thought that I forgot to put in my note above. I sense that his "fiance" was actually the "rebound" relationship. I think it was a knee jerk reaction to my letter to him telling him that I cared about him, but I was moving on. I think that he was going to prove to himself and to others (me) that he could have a relationship. All of this we have discussed on the other thread. It has been only five months to the day since I wrote him the note.

April 25, 2007
2:21 pm
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taj64
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I seriously think you need to stop analyzing this man. It is ridiculous waste of time and you could be meeting a wonderful man. You were not his first, you were side and you read much too much into this man. You did from the start. You should not feel empowered at all but sick of it. You are not stuck in his head. And if you do contact him you are indeed still playing the game. What or who are you trying to kid here? Quite analyzing him. Everything is his problem and his to deal with. You need to stop and think why you are constantly trying to make this work when it is not. You want to write him becauzse you have feelings for him and you want to continue to be in his life even at your own expense. If you do choose to respond, your best bet would be to tell him to leave you alone so that you can live your life. You have a new person in your life and you are seriously going to jeapardize that because that guy will get tired of being second. You have been at this for a very long time and nothing has really changed. You had what appears to be some fun times, but nothing really has been firmly established as a committed relationship. At least from not his angle but yours you are waiting for it to take to the next level and it has not ever been there. I don't believe you are stuck in his head and men like this can go in and out and when in, it is good, and in a moment's notice you are out and well you are not just out physically but mentally. Stop analyzing him and start analyzing yourself and wonder why you keep at this.

April 25, 2007
2:24 pm
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fantas
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2b...Gal, time to exhale! all these posts are right. He didn't even have the good sense to send flowers, chocolate, card or anything to sweeten you up. He is just so sure that you will take him back that he is already taking you for granted. Surprise him and tell him that you don't ever want to hear from him again...personally I'd just delete and block his e-mails. I have an idea, while he is in a grovelling mood, let him take you to an expensive dinner and after he had paid for everything, let him have it and leave him there. I actually did that one. It felt so good! And you who what? he actually called again. Good ego boost for me but I was done. Do you really want to date him and is it satisfactory that he actually wants you back? Keep coming back

April 25, 2007
2:38 pm
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I must have missed something! Where or when did Dr. B. say he wanted 2b back???? I didn't see that AT ALL...

I also think that any hostility towards 2b for her continuance to analyze Dr. B. is misguided... and not helpful at all.

April 25, 2007
2:43 pm
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turnabout
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You're right, 2b. You aren't second choice b/c Boobies wouldn't ever MAKE a choice. LOL Ohhh.... what a BOOB!!

He was just fishing for her availability. That's all. Doesn't mean he'd have the courage to ACT if he confirmed it.

And the reason for e-mail instead of flowers is because he ISN'T so sure she'd take him back. He's FISHING.

April 25, 2007
2:46 pm
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2bstrong
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Thank you, TC. Your post was excellent, and we definitely do well with versatile points of view.

I think there is MUCH projection on these threads. There is a tendency to project feelings, situations, and wishes. Analyzing and processing are parts of healing and growth. Otherwise, we are "chit-chatting" as the site coordinator has written. I have also been aware of people who have made suggestions and given advisement, and have not applied their guidance to their own situations. Making "You" statements is a form of judgement and verbal abuse. We can tell people how we feel about things, and hope for the best for them. Telling them what they should and should not be doing is unhealthy dialogue.

These threads are for support. I asked for help, and I am very grateful for the responses.

April 25, 2007
2:49 pm
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feelingfree
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I was just going to say the same as 2b.. but she of course said it much better than I would have..

**Analyzing and processing are parts of healing and growth.**

We're all different in how we deal with things.. and 'analyzing' is the way some of us wrap our minds around something to gain clarity.

April 25, 2007
2:58 pm
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2bstrong
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Ok, I have to laugh. Isn't this just comical now?

Really. Some of us have spent the last four weeks wondering, worrying, crying, trying to understand it all. I don't think it would have been made more clear to me that he is a wreck if I'd been struck by lightning, or if God had spoken to me.

Did you say this FF? I know I've said this to TC...

He's not going anywhere...nothing has changed...it's all smoke and mirrors.

But we have changed.

April 25, 2007
3:03 pm
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taj64
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I do have a different view. I am sorry but I just see you 2B pouring out all these emotions, that is ok to do, but when it was over a long time ago and you are still being active it in when you could actively be out of it. I am NOT trying to be mean or harsh but to be helpful. Sorry you do not see it that way but really enough is enough. I am trying to help you see 2b to move on from this. Talking about all your dates to me is not helpful but reactivating your feelings and continuing in your pain. Talk about how you feel and about how you can help yourself get over this. You are right every situation is different but to be honest 2B you can move on if you let yourself. Go ahead and call it projection or whatever you want to but I see it as a continuation to be drawn into the fantasy of something that you wish it to be. Please let yourself to move on. I definately will stay off as I feel that I get attacked when i write to you. If i am projecting sorry but I have been there and to allow yourself to stew in memories when they need to lay to rest and put on a shelf. Some relationships the door needs to be closed and not left to be reopeneed again but I would rather see you move quickly and meet a nice guy than to waste your life. Stop thinking I am the bad guy here when underneath I want you to have the best possible relationship you can have. You deserve it. stop atacking me everyone else it is ridiculous. I am trying to help as I have been there and I moved on and if you stay active in it then you also have responsibility as well. Accepting responsibility in your part is helpful criticism and not negative. That is all i will say on it as I am not going to take part in this thread again cuz different views are not always taken because of sensivitiy level and those that are also active in toxic relationhips it is hard to see from different angles. I like you to have a really nice relationship, you been crying too much over a man who doesn't even deserve you a bit.

April 25, 2007
3:32 pm
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turnabout
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Here's a question (or two) for all of us:

What is the payoff individually if 2b follows our particular advice?

What is it about 2b's possible vulnerability that makes us feel vulnerable?

What is it about our own histories we are trying to "fix" through advising 2b?

April 25, 2007
3:41 pm
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taj64
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What i see is this guy doesn't respect you or truly care deep enough. He cares about what he gets. If he truly cared about you and your well being and your life, he would let you alone period. He would not be contacting you and would be letting you live your life and find a man that will give you what you need. And you by keeping that door an inch open allows him to pop in whenever he feels like it and that is what happens. It doesn't matter who is trying to fix who here. or history. It is about a guy who needs to be gone out of a woman's life. IF the guy wanted to marry you and be with you, he would be there and already have been there. Don't be a side kick. You are better than that. Im not sitting here being vulernable or trying to take in a lesson. The guy is a jerk but a jerk when others make him to be a jerk, and then sympathize with him when the need is there to sympathsize. The key to healing a broken heart is to let go, even if hard. Letting go involves do what YOU have to do in letting go. Not waiting around for him to let go. Take charge of your own life, it is your life. THink long term and less reacting. Seek the best you want for your life as in seeking out an answer with this guy has not worked and won't and you did not get the best here. Be active in healing and not active in prolonging. Guess that sums it up for me. Take care 2B!!!! forgive yourself too.

April 25, 2007
3:42 pm
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This guy is your heroin. Everyone knows that heroin is not good for you. Heroin has no intentions, good or bad, but it's still not good for you.

Stay away. Don't let yourself have to go through withdrawal and recovery again. Regardless of what Dr. B wants, to get back together, date casually, talk, or whatever, it's the impact that contact will have on YOU, not his intentions. Keep your streak of no contact going. If you contact him, you will take a big step BACKWARDS! Contact might be satisfying for a while, but it will be the same as before soon enough. Trust me. Been there, done that - and it never changes. Heroin is no good for you.

April 25, 2007
4:11 pm
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feelingfree
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katzndog, sounds like you've definitely been there.. boy can I relate to that post.

April 25, 2007
4:23 pm
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atalose
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Turnabout,

Let me answer your questions in reverse:

For me personally and from my own history I am not trying to fix anything about my own history it’s more about sharing from my own history experience.

As far as 2b’s possible vulnerability it reminds me of my own vulnerable state when
I remained hooked to someone far too long and keep my hopes and dreams alive with
what little he offered. Even if I read too much into his words via emails it keep me there and something alive.

I think if 2b followed the no response to his very impersonal email way of communicating, her merry go round ride of emotions would come to an end.

Each of us learn the lesson at our own pace, some of us have already learned it, some of us are in the process of learning it and others don’t want to learn it at all because it would mean accepting something one is not ready to accept.

Just my own thoughts…..

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

April 25, 2007
4:25 pm
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Hey Tra,

I don't think that I have a payoff based on whether or not 2b (or anyone) takes any advice that I offer... Sure, it would make me feel great if I could MAKE people do what I thought they should do... especially my 12 year old son (toilet seat issues...) but I don't take it personally if they don't do what I suggest. It does not affect MY life at all (except when my left butt cheek hits the cold water at 2:00 a.m.).

My issue is this... (and it's probably not the point you were trying to make) but sometimes, I feel frustrated when I put a lot of thought into a post to someone and it is completely ignored. Not acknowledged AT ALL! It upsets me greatly to feel disregarded.

I have had opposing opinions with people who wind up taking it personally... which bothers me... I have even had people ignore me when I tried to talk about our differences of opinion. THAT bothers me, but I don't feel frustrated when someone does not TAKE my advice.

Does that make sense?

TC

April 25, 2007
4:34 pm
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2bstrong
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TC...I see your point so clearly. I hope that you don't think I am ignoring you...I am not. There is a lot of sh** happening this afternoon. What bothers me the most is when we get derailed from the topic at hand because we feel we need to defend ourselves.

April 25, 2007
4:36 pm
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turnabout
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Really just put questions out their for people to examine themselves and their motives. I don't care about examining them in anyone else myself.

If I'm going to be honest about my own motives in offering advice which I URGENTLY want someone to heed, it's because I remember messing up and it hurt, so someone else going through something similar SEEMS to offer the opportunity for me to fix my mistakes.

But the truth is, my mistakes were made. They can't be fixed. And influencing someone else to do what I wish I'd done won't fix them. It won't even make them FEEL fixed, although it's tempting to think it will.

There's a difference between offering the benefit of one's experience and trying to CONVINCE a person of what they should do. The first is healthy, but the latter is codependent.

April 25, 2007
4:36 pm
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Well, TC, I think you posted a BRILLIANT comment, above, and I agree with you.

Yes, Boob is a Boob, not so much with malice aforethought, as it were. I found myself nodding along as I read it.

Yes, 2B is someone he's comfortable with. I thinks he's magnificently screwed up and can't get out of his own way. Everything in his life is about HIM, little room for anyone else, or ill will, for that matter. But into every N's life, a little friendship must fall, and 2B fits that bill.

H-gal

April 25, 2007
4:37 pm
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No... wasn't talking about you, 2b but thanks for asking!

I hope you are still hanging tough and NOT CALLING HIM!!!

April 25, 2007
4:40 pm
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Thanks H-gal!!!

"Boob is a BOOB"!!!!!! Now THAT'S brilliant!

TC

April 25, 2007
4:49 pm
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taj64
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Gosh I am laughing so hard at all this ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I need a good laugh.

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