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abandonment issues AGAIN
October 6, 2001
8:14 pm
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pill
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He was doing all the right things then he throws something on me this afternoon. Seems some old friend of 7 years (Debbrah) is moving to town and needed a place to stay until she gets settled. Now, I have really worked hard at overcoming my trust issues. I really dont' think there is anything going on. He siad they had never been together, and I believe him. They haven't worked it out how long she is staying. my jealousy is rearing it's head too. like why cant' i live with him? why does she get a key and not me? it really sucks having to feel this way again. I dont' want to feel this way!

I'm seeking advice on whether to continue to see this guy. This kind of thing will continue to happen. The thing is I feel stressed out and overcome with panic and anxiety when he does this. The other thing is he won't tell me the whole story and that makes it worse for me. Do I trust him or not? is like askign if I love him. I chose to love him, therefore I trust him as a part of that. It's just that each time he pulls stuff like this, I have to deal with my issues of abandonment and insecurity. Every time. I don't know if I'll ever get over those feelings. Should I conintue to work on it while I'm with him, or get out now and save myself the stress?

Should I date a guy who will be there all the time, and be a good boy? Or should I continue to see this guys who is a good person, but doesn't let women push him around?

Quesitons like will i find someone else like him, will i even find someone else at all cloud my mind... i wish i had more faith in god to take over and take care of me. Should i ask god to take care of it, or should I make a decision to quit this guy?

Please don't let the whinney tone of this note keep you from giving me some tough advice.

October 7, 2001
2:33 pm
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gingerleigh
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It's all about what you really want and feel that you will stand for. If something bothers you about this relationship between him and his friend, there's usually a reason for it.

You don't trust this man, otherwise you wouldn't be posting this here. Why is that? As many have stated here, there can be no love if there is no trust.

Is there any compelling reason for you to stay with this man? You feel stressed and panicky so you say. Maybe some time taking care of yourself would be in order. Get some perspective... what do you think?

October 7, 2001
9:25 pm
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shades
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you always have a good answer, you have good advice

October 8, 2001
10:09 am
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pill
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How can i get perspective, Ginge?

October 8, 2001
10:52 am
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UPdate: he and I talked about trust and stuff. I told him that this relationship was giving me a chance to work on my abandonment issues, and he says he hasn't abandoned me. I say that is true, but with my style and inconsistency of trust, it brings it up anyway. We've left it as is. he's told his friend it bothers me that she if living there. I told him I didnt' want her to clean up him place, that it is my job, if anyone else thinks it's their job. She's paying him to stay there. He says her cleaning up a bit leaves him more time to spend with me.

I still feel upset and bothered, but am trying to forget about it for now. I still don't understand how to be calm and gain perspective on it all. But, somehow, it all feels better today. Maybe because he and i spent so much time this weekend. It seems my trust is less shaky today than ever. I feel more relaxed about him and the whole relaitonship too. I feel like I may have matured or crossed over into a new realm, a new meaning of it all. He told me he just couldnt' let go of the relationship, despite my issues and hurt he has felt. And, I feel that depsite the things I've seen and felt from trusting in him, that I cannot let go either. Does this sound co-dependent. Do we seem normal?

Yes, some perspective would help. how do I do that?

October 8, 2001
12:24 pm
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Cici
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No such thing as normal, hon. Every relationship is as unique and individual as the people involved.

But I must say, as my Mom always said, "the grass is always greener over the septic tank." When you're partner is independent, you wish they were more dependent. When they are dependent, you wish they were independent. I've experienced this firsthand, my complain to my husband has always been that he is too dependent and it can get annoying when someone can't entertain themselves for more than 2 hours. Really annoying. ha ha ha.

I think a good relationship is simply when you find someone who can tolerate your idiosynchrasies and whose idiosynchrasies you can tolerate.

Gaining perspective requires you to be able to take a step back, to be able to disengage your "observer ego" (as Freud would say) from your overly emotional id. It's being able to judge a situation without the complexities of your own emotional issues tied in to your perspective. Different people do this in different ways. Some pray, some meditate, some do breathing exercises, some people run or walk or bike, just to be able to clear your mind of emotional colors to see clearly. Choose whatever feels right and comfortable to you.

October 8, 2001
1:07 pm
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Molly
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Remember that old story, why buy a cow when milk is so cheap, and then when you have a cow that will pay to stay, what are ya gonna do?
If it doesn't fit, why do you try to reshape you to make it fit?
Go ride your bike and meditate on this one. We teach them what we will accept or reject, and he knows what he can get away with.

October 8, 2001
5:33 pm
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gingerleigh
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Glad that you are feeling better, Pill. Perspective to me means "pulling outside" enough to see yourself as from the outside, realizing that you are complete all by your little self, whether there is a partner in your life or not. This is very hard to do if you aren't practiced at it. Getting this perspective is different for everyone, but I can tell you what worked for me. I have a deep love of music and work at playing for myself and sharing the music with others through free performances. I know that no matter what I'll always have it, and no one can take it from me (unless I let them). For other people, the outside perspective came from volunteer work, or through church, or visual arts, or athletic competition. I guess maybe it boils down to finding some *thing* that you are passionate about, as opposed to building all of your passions around some *one*.

Shades, thank you for your kind words. I went through a very rough period in life, like a lot of people are here. This period was much different in intensity and in outcome. I finally had had enough of the bullshit in life and wanted to stop it once and for all. I realized that I really am in control, and have control over myself and *only* myself. I've walked through my life in "victim" mode, trying always to be perfect, then rebelling in ways that were harmful only to myself. I disrespected my body and soul in a variety of ways... my relationships with men, serious drug use, alcohol abuse... I lost sight of everything, only misery and pain existed. I was afraid of everything, and some days I still am. Some nights I still slip and break that one glass of wine with dinner promise I've made. But I'm human, and I'm learning to accept the parts of me that aren't perfect and focus on the pieces that are really important to me.

Pill, keep your lines of communication open. Be aware that sometimes after a really good heart-to-heart we can believe that things have permanently changed and then sweep things under the rug. This may be the big step for you, just keep an eye on it and on yourself, focus on some of those other passions as well to keep yourself balanced.

October 9, 2001
4:34 pm
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pill
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Molly, do you think I should take a break from this relationship. I'm so confused... part of me wants to stay and love and trust... part of me says get out...

in another post i just said how proud I was of him. Now I feel like a two-faced crazy person. I have such doubts about his fidelity and committment, yet can't offer what he can do differently to prove himself. He expects me to just accept and stand by whatever he does. He expects me to trust no matter. He says "you either trust or you dont'. if you can't trust, that's just sad!" so, i try to trust and love. Don't want to be "sad". I want to be strong and loving.

If i had to come out and ask him, i'd say stay by my side 24 hours a day and i'll trust you. only then will i trust you. Is there some problem with me that's unrelated to him?

October 9, 2001
5:40 pm
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Molly
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I was going to ask about that post, but hey its part of the relational dance. Got some questions, like how old are you, how long have you been with this guy, how far has this relationship gone, is he the first? How long did you know him before....
so, with out all of the information, why put all your eggs in one basket if ya know what I mean. What about dating, finding out all the nooks and crannies of the person, prior to the event. That is what usually messes up us girls, we give them the big gift, and figure that they take it the way we give it, and not just sex either emotional attachment, consideration and love, we just give it out by the truck load when we should dole it out in spoons first. You don't have to go all the way to the left or all the way to the right, you can stay right in the middle, if he calls and your available, and choose to share your time great, if he doesn't call, go fishing. Sometimes we want something sooooooooooo bad, we give it are all and they are just looking at us like we were stupid, or at least on a different page, don't take this personal he would be like this with any one its not just about you, your gifts or your insecurities, you just want him. Maybe its not the right time or person, and just an opportunity to learn about how precious what you have to give is, and heck, if he isn't worthy then go fishing. Have you ever knocked your self out, fixing a dinner for fiends that you thought you knew? Spent more than you had got the wine glasses, and everything matched on the table, worked your butt off on this increadible steak dinner to find out when you put it out there that they were vegans? Sometime life just works out that way, and we have to figure out that there is a carnivor that would have died to sit at your table, and trust has nothing to do with him. Unless he is pushing your buttons to play a game with you , and if that is the case, well you know what to do with that, protect your heart, don't give it untill they have earned it.

October 10, 2001
10:40 am
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pill
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Molly you have so much to give. Thank you once again for your thoughts and your energy.

October 10, 2001
11:27 am
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moonglow
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I can relate to how you feel. I love my husband so much but sometimes I want to escape and be free. He has a lot of qualities I love. He's very attractive, funny, affectionate, and, giving. It's hard for me to trust him because I've been cheated on by my ex. I didn't love my ex as much as I love my husband so I don't think I could bear the pain if my husband were to do that to me.

October 10, 2001
12:36 pm
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pill
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Moonglow, my trust problems come from another source. Not really from actual things done wrong, but from a childhood fear of trusting and then being dropped. I do love my boyfriend and getting to a point of complete trust with him is like pushing a car that's in park uphill... or something like that.

It's good to hear from your point of view.

October 10, 2001
1:24 pm
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Ladeska
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My two cents worth here...if it were me - I wouldn't appreciate him putting me in this kind of position. And it sounds very familiar to me - that guys like the deal of - oh wow, two women are after me b.s. Boring.... But, you have to decide what you want and what's not right for you. I see nothing but trouble with this whole scene.

I seriously wonder if the shoe was other foot - how he would fare emotionally. I've been in a similar spot before and it was soooo much b.s. He accused me of being jealous, being the one with low self-esteem, etc., etc. - when in all reality - that shoe was his foot all along.

I think men enjoy this kind of scenario, all the time telling you this, that and the other thing. And don't think for one minute that this woman is not enjoying this scene as well. Women really get off on this kind of thing if for no other reason than to upset another woman and to get one over on her or make her think whatever in order to stroke their own ego.

Just depends on how much drama you're up for. I see a whole mini-series here....

October 10, 2001
1:27 pm
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pill
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Lad, I'll keep you up on the story. Tonight I'm spending the night with him. She'll be there too...

October 10, 2001
3:12 pm
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Ladeska
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Oh boy....this ought to be a real hoot! But, you'll see what's up with her, with him and with yourself. Bottomline is - can you handle whatever and if the answer is No - then it's just No and you don't need to beat yourself up for it either.

Mind you, I have to admit that another thought is playing in my head here, too - of the all too familiar thing with guys wanting to go to bed with two women or "view the lesbian scene" - so, just a heads up on that one. (bad choice of words there...) Anywho...just something to consider - seen this all to often, too, where people test you to see what you will or won't do.

Then again, maybe everything is coming up daffodils here and he is able to just be a Bud and she's able to just be a Bud and everyone will skip off into Pleasantville together. Could happen I suppose....miracles do still occur....traffic accidents happen more frequently though.

Man, I'm such the pessimist over here, aren't I? Well, if you'd been through what I've been through lately - you'd be reality based, too... Has put a whole new spin on life in general for me. So - just play all scenarios and trust no one until they earn it. This just all smells funny to me, that's all. I've learned to trust those funny little instincts...

October 10, 2001
3:54 pm
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pill
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You make me laugh Lad... but I know what you mean. I think you may be missing some parts though. What's up with her is she's an exdruggie with no contacts in town. This is their only connection.

But... what do you mean by this: "Bottomline is - can you handle whatever and if the answer is No - then it's just No and you don't need to beat yourself up for it either. " ?

The les scene won't be happening here either. Neither one of us finds her all that attractive enyway.

You make me laugh again! Pleasantville - it pretty close to that. he's got a big heart and all... NO you're not a pessimist at all - just objectively observing...

I got a whiff of her last night and she seems to be pretty harmless, and uncomfortable around me. Of course it was probably due to the daggers that were shooting out of my eyes... I was also mentally vibing to her my black motorcycle boot kicking her but out the door. She was probably feeling it right in her chakra.

October 10, 2001
4:47 pm
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Molly
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Ex druggie, no contacts, hmmmmmmmm, how long can he be Mr. Nice guy? Just cleaning his house? How old is he? Sounds like a man I used to work with, he finally ended up running a half way house for women. Don't think its all above board though. These women are real smart survivors, watch your self, and Your Chakra's.
If she can read your arura, your screwed. 🙂

October 10, 2001
5:12 pm
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pill
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What do you mean my chakra's screwed? He's on my side.

October 10, 2001
5:19 pm
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pill
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He's going to tell her to leave. We talked about it last night. He's told her how important I am to him. This is his display of that. But it sure is a drag that he didn't think of my importance when he let her stay there.

October 10, 2001
8:56 pm
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gingerleigh
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Pill, not to add doom and gloom here, but don't necessarily believe it when a man says that he doesn't find another woman attractive, no matter what she looks like. "Beauty is only a light switch away..." From my personal experience, my exhusband and I were friends with another woman who "both" of us found to be not attractive. Without my knowledge, their friendship deepend, and crossed the intimacy line again and again, and I never found out about it until I saw them walking up the street outside of my office hand-in-hand pausing every once in a while to exchange a kiss or a hug. *barf*

Just be careful, the Lesbian scenario that Laddie described isn't necessarily as faroff and farfetched as you might think. Good luck darlin'.

October 11, 2001
10:37 am
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pill
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Yeah, I do have some suspecions, but they would b e worse if i knew he wasn't getting everything he needs from me.

October 11, 2001
11:05 am
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Ladeska
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Pill....the if it's No part of my message was - if you asked him to make her leave and he said No - that you need to accept that and then do what you have to do in return. Sometimes men or women get off on the push and pull thing. Is quite the ego trip and some people like all that attention and drama. All I was saying was that - the best way to nip that one in the bud is to ask the question, get the answer and go Okay and then do your thing without all the talking, the trying to get them to see your point, etc. I used to do all that and now in hindsight I see how I was being manipulated. and sucked into something. In all reality it was about their own ego and very little to do with my feelings.

If you're comfortable with your talk and okay with what's been decided - then cool. I would say that a red flag has been raised that he didn't consider you in the beginning. That - isn't cool, at all. It just all sounds a bit strange to me, the bleeding heart, her an ex-druggie, yada, yada. If her character isn't so hot - he'd better nail down what's in his apt., or end up missing it later.

I don't know, anymore I have a problem with all of a sudden the big floodlight of realization comes over the guy about your feelings in this whole scene, he's just got a good heart and was thinking of her welfare...ohhhh, how sweet is that? And Where do his loyalties lie - that he would sacrifice your heart for hers, not to even mention putting himself at risk for a number of things.

I always look around the corner and go okay....so, besides this deal of you being a good guy, bleeding heart, etc......what other motivation would you have for doing this? Just something to ask yourself, keep in your head - because chances are you'll see this kind of thing later down the road and scratch your head again and go - what tha hell was that all about? Pay attention to the signs as you pass them. You'll kick yourself in the whazoo later for not doing that. He was majorly inconsiderate of you, no way getting around that one.

October 11, 2001
11:16 am
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pill
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Yeah, we did discuss this recurring thing of him not considering me. I guess he and i weren't meant to be together. I mean why should i change and mold myself to adjust to his eccestricities? I makes me feel insecure - and that is that.

October 11, 2001
11:25 am
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pill
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I mean as it stands now I've basically told him "you lied. i wish you had more faith in me than that. you ask me to have blind faith, yet you do things that destroy that."

I really believe that he doesn't really want a relationship and is in love with the idea only. when it comes to the real thing, he doesn't have the skills or the interest in pursuing it. it's too much trouble.

anyway, it' dissapointing for me because i'd like to have that with him. I really like and respect him as a person. guess i can't have it all.

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