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Abandonment and Tough Decisions
October 13, 2006
12:29 pm
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journeyman
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Well, let me start by giving a little background… I am a man in my mid-late 20’s and have the “classic” symptoms of codependence and abandoholism. I have always been able to discard anything in my life with my self proclaimed “f#[email protected] it” theory. I just put away any pain or loss and somehow, at least consciously, I am okay with that. I have felt for a long time that there has been something inside that has been rotting away at my core. I have recently been so very deeply hurt on so many levels and due to a pretty rare situation, I have taken a stand against the tidal wave of emotion. I have done a lot of self-reflection, which I have never really been able to do, and I realized that I was the ultimate saboteur in my relationships. I have continuously been in “serious” and monogamous relationships and have experienced a loss in each and every one of them. I used to joke to myself that this is because I let people too close to me and only recently discovered that it, in fact, is the complete opposite. I too, like some posters, have the incessant urge to be a caretaker, a provider, and I truly throw everything that I am into a person. I devote my life to that person and I have come to expect the end of every relationship, some angry and emotional and some just through distance and eventual emptiness.

I have only recently faced myself and realized that I really really do need to look within. This came from a traumatic experience and has, in many ways, already freed my spirit. I was wondering if I could get some insight from people outside the forrest into what I am going through and whether or not I need to reconsider some recent decisions. I am not looking for answers, just some insightful feedback. Well, here goes:

I have been with, what I consider, my soul mate for about 2.5 years now. We have everything in common and share many aspects of our lives with each other (except my deep darkness inside). I have known since the first day I became intimate with her (we were best friends for about 1 year prior) that this woman would change my life absolutely. I have been so deeply in love with her and find her personal strength and lust for life incredibly inspiring, which is what makes my situation so beneficial and difficult at the same time. I was gone for a week and she was not right. I could feel her from 1000 miles away and I knew something was not right. She told me she is very stressed out and that she wanted to wait until she saw me to talk to me. I was certain this had something to do with a recent career move, doctor’s appointment, etc. that I, unbeknownst to her, came home a day early-out of worry for her. I found her in our bed with another woman… Initially, I was more shocked than anything, but she had told me right away when this girl (who was a distant acquaintance) had kissed her about 4 days earlier was concerned about how I felt and my girl, a day later, confessed that she had, since then, developed a fantasy involving myself and another woman. Well, I found out later that she has feelings for this woman and that she was not wanting me to find out like this and that she has been struggling with following her heart for herself and for me. She told me she wanted anything to come between us but that she cannot give herself fully to me if she didn’t fully know herself. The F$%@ it theory came rushing back to me. For a split second I was ready to leave all that we had behind as to not face the largest tidal wave of emotion I could see coming. The fact that, in my heart of hearts, I know she and I have/had something truly special and my love for her feels so strong and pure made me stand true and take the onslaught of emotions for the first time in my life. We decided that we are going to get through her confusion/shock and my pain together. My feelings for her have not changed, the feeling of mistrust is understood and I find myself loving her more and more every day. The main reason being that, ultimately, she has made me face myself and I draw strength in the fact that she has always been able to. She says she has never had feelings for another woman and that this is a part of her that she needs to explore and understand. I understand now more than ever. We have also agreed that we need to live separate and alone to understand who it is we are for ourselves. We are both of the opinion that what we had is over but that the new found openness and love for one another is worth trying to rebuild. We are currently together and we live together, we have not made love since (only a week or so), and I find myself needing her reassurance to cope with my abandonment issues. My abandoholism is shouting to me that we will live apart and fall away-abandonment in progress. My love for her is making me think that if I don’t confront my issues and, at least, attempt to rebuild something that may be potentially stronger and ultimately more solid on an individual level, that I wouldn’t be true to my heart and I would regret that. (worst feeling of all) We have decided we are not going to rush into moving apart and that we will be completely honest and communicate with each other as much as we can to help each other in our vastly different conflicts. I know she needs to see this woman again and there is no telling how long that will take. I am willing to confront these emotions to allow her the freedom of self expression. We are who we are and we needn’t hide that from each other. I am exited to live by myself and to reconnect with myself. I find myself torn between excitement and anxiety for what will happen with us but she has been completely honest with me, saying she wants to be with me. I think what we have now is evolving into a greater thing and that once we get past the emotional sensitivities, we might still be with one another by choice while truly appreciating our own internal freedom and peace. We have acknowledged the fact that we should try because of the potential, especially now. I know now, had this not happened, (maybe I caused it, but that is not important to me), my own inner demons would have destroyed our relationship in time and am grateful for the opportunity to try and change and learn with her rather than have to face myself after a destructive loss later on down the road.(probably put it away like the rest) In a sense, she has set me free and I need to figure out if I am being more self destructive than I am beneficial.

Sorry for the long post, I have always been a man of detail. Any questions or comments would be greatly appreciated. Fear not for where the journey may take you, fear only for no journey at all.

October 13, 2006
1:01 pm
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mj
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I admire your courage and literary ability to put yourself out there to strangers in order to clearly see yourself from anothers perspective.

Share with me what you perceive as your abandonment. I have abandonment issues as well. Mine started at age 12.

Most importantly in your journey is that you learn to trust yourself and your own instincts.

My response to your story of finding your gf in bed was such a sense of horror and distrust that I would have thought your fi response would have been appropriate. But that is my issue. I react not respond in times of crisis.

Glad you found this site and hopefully others can give you their unbiased summation.

October 13, 2006
1:36 pm
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on my way
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You seem to be a man who is capable of a healthy relationship, and one that is capable of having a very loving relationship. Any abandonment issues you may have, while you admit that you have them, I guess I would ask myself to what degree it controls your relationships, but to me you seem really fairly normal. But back to this relationship you have....my thoughts are that it is a door opened for abandonment, because you are with someone who now has to make a choice between you or someone else, and that someone else is not even really anyone you can compare yourself too even if you wanted too, as it is a 'woman'. If she is bi-sexual, or if she is a lesbian...ok for her, but you have to ask yourself...in the LONG RUN, is this what you want, or need, and do you want to find her again like this?

You are young, have your whole life ahead of you, and you seem like a very caring man. Each relationship is a step closer to finding "the one", not all are 'the one'....just one. So I suggest you take the love you have given and received and be open to someone else that might love you for you and not need to find themselves.

Sorry, gave you advice, but these are my thoughts for you.

October 13, 2006
1:40 pm
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My abandonment issues probably started at around 10 and since then I have been on a continuous love-loss cycle. I recently realized that this has grown over the years. Throughout college my focus was college and I was able to find solace in the fact that I could focus on college and her companionship with the expectation for great things after completion. I found myself, almost a year later, avoiding change, because I felt comfort in her and our "current" (at the time) relationship. The stronger my feelings became for her, and the stronger I felt her's were for me, the more I began to feel this underlying need to focus on her as to avoid my own reality. I felt that I was begining to hold her, us, and myself back. I made choices that weren't mine, I began not wanting to go out with her rather than just stay in with her to "take care" of her needs as a means of diverting focus. I have the feeling of attention deficit syndrom, which has grown with my growth of love for her. I realize now that this 'demon within' would not go away but I allowed it to linger only looking forward to the changes in our lives (finding a house, marriage, etc.) while at the same time trying subconsciously to prevent change and growth. I felt myself becoming content with her, with us, with work, with everything. This completely contradicted the urge I have had in my life to expand, experience and grow. I am a firm believer in the fact that we must completely understand ourselves to reach a new plateau of freedom, peace and happiness. I was becoming self destructive because I knew (from past experience) that she would leave and I would lose the greatest person in my life. Since the event, I have learned to take the good moments with the bad moments and at least find peace in the fact that I alone cannot change the events that are unfolding. I am solely concerned with the fact that I need to find myself and be everything that I am to her to make sure that I put my all into this (it deserves it and it needs it) difficult situation. If I don't come clean to myself, I couldn't bear the burden of regret for lack of self understanding. As strange as it sounds, by following her own heart and causing perhaps the largest amount of pain I have ever chosen to endure, I have only began to really love her. I realize that I love her for what she is made of and not who she is. I realize that change is inevitable and necessary but I have to deal with the fact that experiences are not good or bad, but necessary.

She has been a beacon in my life. I always knew she would change my life forever, I didn't know how until she made me open my eyes and see myself. I hope this is begining but I am fighting with the fear of her leaving me. I have, since this began, poured myself out, mostly with no direction but I find myself becoming more organized and directed in my quest to give all that I can give. I hope it is not to late for us, for her to see me for who I really am. If she fell in love with the conscious me, I hope she will also see my inner beauty. The unknown presents so many questions and I am standing firm on the fact that I feel the answers are not important but that the life we live, as long as it is true to ourselves, will reveal the answers in time. This has been a bitter sweet ride and I cannot thank her enough for this opportunity. I really want her to be happy but I have to deal with the possibility of that not being with me.

I have yet to tackle the feelings of failure. I only know, at this point, that my ignorance about myself would have caused failure...might have caused this...might already have taken its course but I wholly understand that this is likely an issue only she will ever understand. That's okay. I look to tomorrow now and see that I have to fight against the hard times and against the urge to bury my true feelings to be completely understanding of who I am in order for her love to be for who I really am. I sense a need for urgency, since this is also about another person and I try to not pretend that she will wake up tomorrow, look into my eyes, and completely feel at peace with her situation and 'return' to only me. We both have a lot of things to consider and I hope that we can weather the storm we are about to face alone yet remain connected on a deeper level.

October 13, 2006
1:55 pm
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on my way-
Thank you for your advice. On one hand, I can't agree with you more and, on the other, I hope my feelings are true and less influenced by my understanding of at least some of my main issues in that I feel that this has the potential to becoming a truly beatiful life experience. I don't think that I can fully accept the fact that she might be with another woman (or person) until I have allowed her the freedom of inner peace and knowledge. She too must make a journey and I couldn't walk away before I know the answer. I have read that women may have a bisexual relationship because of an emotional need in their lives. Maybe my progressive deterioration starved her of something she needed and now has found in a person (gender irrelevant). I want to give her this emotion because I know I can now but I cannot force anything on her but I can only lay myself out for her to see. I can't make her look, I can't decide anything for her, I can only supply an open ear, heart and mind as support. I can't walk away, not yet. I would be going against what I think I have recently rediscovered is my true self. It is extremely important to me that I begin to re-acknowledge that and stay as true as possible because I feel this is the only road to healing. I guess I feel I need the pain, the sorrow, the absolute destruction of what I had in order to take only the true pieces of me into the future. The only thing she can do for me(for my old self) is to make me feel less pain (abandonment, cheating, failure, etc.) but this isn't what my journey will be about. It will be to bear the burden of my own dishonesty with myself and, ultimately, with those around me.

On a lighter note, does anyone (woman) think that sex is needed for the feeling of re-assurance of not being abandoned? I honestly don't think so but I understand that she probably will need to explore this with this woman again...that's gonna sting a little...but at least its not going to blind side me...any suggestions?

October 13, 2006
2:12 pm
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I am extremely empathetic to your situation. I jumped from one relationship to the next without really understanding why. I admire that you are on this journey of self discovery. I heard the saying that it takes two whole individuals to have a good marriage. I am working on being that whole person now.

In my past I thought sex was equated with love but know now it is just a misplaced need.

What books are you currently reading? Are you in therapy? What is your plan for exploring your past issues and how they relate to your current choices?

October 13, 2006
2:27 pm
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Let me toss a few words onto this thread which haven't appeared yet:

- BETRAYAL

- UNFAITHFULNESS

- INFIDELITY

- DECEPTION

- SELF-WORTH

- SELF-RESPECT

- TRUST

Betrayal - She betrayed you by going to bed with another woman.

Unfaithfulness - She was unfaithful to you. I am calling a "spade" a SPADE, here.

Infidelity - When we are in a committed partnership and our partner hops into bed with another party, that is called "infidelity."

Deception - She hid this from you. Doesn't matter if it was for 2 minutes or 2 days, she deceived you.

Self-Worth - When we place a high value on ourselves and have good, healthy self-esteem, we draw healthy boundaries with our partners and have reasonable expectations of what we will -- or will not -- tolerate from them before we consider the partnership "violated." Your self-worth seems mighty low, if you are willing to tolerate being put on "hold," while she shacks up with another woman and decides what SHE wants. What about YOU? You are not the one on "trial" here. SHE IS.

Self-Respect - If we respect ourselves, we require the same from those wishing to be close to us. Not only did she betray your relationship, she did it in YOUR home and in YOUR bed. That would constitute a major lack of respect for you in my book. At least, she could have done it ELSEWHERE.

Trust - True intimacy requires trust. No trust? No intimacy. Period. How can you ever trust her again? If she will betray you once, she will betray you again.

I hope I have not offended you, but I tend to be a bit blunt when I see someone hurt in such a fashion. And her betrayal of you HAD to hurt. We can intellectualize about our relationships, but the bottom line is how we FEEL. This is a matter of the heart, not the head.

My heart goes out to you. You must be in alot of emotional pain and you need alot of support, understanding and encouragement right now.

- Ma Strong

October 13, 2006
2:42 pm
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I have made the conscious decision not to read any books or attend any therapy, at least for now. I am excited for the fact that I feel I am more in touch with what is going on than ever before. I have confidence in my abilities to understand and digest my feelings based solely on the true self I have begun to rediscover. For me, I feel I would be denying myself if I didn't try to patiently sift through my wreckage so that I might not miss anything important to me and instead take with me something important to someone else's success. I have tried to understand that time is irrelevant in this situation but find myself being influenced by social standards...I mean, what is a few weeks, months, or even years in the grand scheme of things...My emotions have a tendency to make every second seem like an eternity and I have had to overcome this. I have to have faith that in honestly communicating my feelings with her and friends and family that I will find what is important to me in my current choices. The thing I will be relying on the most is the complete honesty and understanding of my feelings to truly understand my current and future choices. Talking to her has given me the most strength and peace because I know that I am not the only one dealing with myself and the more I talk to my friends (without inhibition or a feeling of vulnerability) I am finding out that all of us are in need of discussion. Through absolute honesty, I have helped a few friends (guys) become more in touch with what they really felt and that alone feels great. I talk without regard for someone feelings but I warn them that I need that part of the discussion for me and only want everyone to know and see who I truly am. The guys and I (you know, the non outwardly emotional type) have recently discovered the fact that we all struggle and are considering a weekly honesty session to let ALL feelings out...I think it will help us all bond and feel relieved that we all share life together.

October 13, 2006
2:47 pm
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mj
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Well Good luck journeyman. Sounds like you are looking at all things and being who you truly are.

October 13, 2006
2:48 pm
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MA,
I appreciate complete honesty more than most people...thank you. I really do appreciate your perspective and would like to talk about these things too. I know that I have addressed some of the issues you have laid down but I also know that, in order for me to see me, I cannot allow myself to be blinded by the fog that some of these very intense emotions bring about. I hope you wish to hear my reasons...

October 13, 2006
2:50 pm
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Sure...fire away, son. (I can call you "son" because I have two grown son, myself. I am an OLD "ma.")

: )

October 13, 2006
3:18 pm
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Let me start with the fact that this is a completely unique situation in and of itself. I have to be understanding of the power of emotion and know that had this been another man she would not have lit one fire prior to putting out the other. She has that kind of strength and respect (which is what I am ultimately drawn to).

BETRAYAL- I have felt ashamed of my own betrayal to me and admire her strength for making that tough decision. She’s told me she didn’t want anything between us and this made her feel like she was going to be between us. I saw the pain in her eyes when I got home, I had never seen her like this and that enforced the feeling of honesty I was getting from her. (I wasn’t there for her physically while this was happening)

UNFAITHFULNESS- I don’t think she was unfaithful to me because it was not I that supposedly caused this or did anything to influence her. She remained faithful to herself and that is the only thing that will complete a relationship.

INFIDELITY- To give into your body’s signals is natural, to have to live with that burden is not. This is equated to me on a physical level… lonely, aroused, new, different and unknown are words that I think of to describe this. I love her who what she is made of and I honestly don’t feel that I could have resisted all of these powerful and different emotions (this is after all, her first finding of being attracted to a woman) sitting at home alone and lonely.

DECEPTION- She deceived me because how can you honestly try to explain this to someone you love over the phone. Could you? With emotions possessing so much power and influence, how can we use this primitive verbal language to ever describe what it is we feel completely without sitting across from one another?

Self-Worth- This one is a thing alright. Over the years, my self worth has been deteriorating because of my internally unresolved conflicts. After every relationship I felt I was the one who blew it. I am currently fighting that feeling with this one not because I don’t want to deal with it but because what we had is no longer and I want to focus on laying the foundation for the resurrection.

Self-Respect- Clearly this is obvious. I respect myself, but I feel that to limit the experience of your partner is also a form of disrespect. This will not go away on its own, and I think that this will be a tough cookie when I get to it. I had to disseminate the situation to deal with it and feel that I need to go at it one day, one emotion, and feeling at a time to give it all my full attention. Location is just that, a location...

Trust- Wow, that word holds more meaning than any of the other words. I can understand what she did was wrong. I can also forgive the mistakes that were made on both sides. What is important to me is the absolute clear communication between us, this is the only way I will ever regain trust in her. I have asked her to be completely honest with me and for the next few days and into the weekend to tell me everything that is going on…(i.e. the woman called her and she wants to call her back, or I was thinking this about her today, etc.) It is the only thing I can think of to try and re-establish that trust.

I really want to make the best of the worst. I want to take with me the full flavor of this decision to stay and learn all that can be learned from it. I admit to you that I have sacrificed some things but I feel that without this situation I wouldn’t have addressed my own issues until it was too late.

October 13, 2006
3:22 pm
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I guess the ultimate question is... If you love someone, you should allow them the freedom of being complete and honest with themselves, but should a sexual/emotional pursuit be any different than say, a new type of painting, if the feeling between you and person has not changed? Tough call for me...a very tough call.

October 13, 2006
3:34 pm
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hi journey man. it is good to make the best out of the worst, that's really how i've lived my life, but now i'm learning that that might not be that noble nor that honest.

having said that, we all make mistakes, we stumble, we hurt others and we need to pick up the pieces, learn, grow and move forward. sounds like you and your GF are in a journey of self-discovery that might lead to a stronger, healthier relationship, but it might not.

pay attention to your intentions -really, why would you really want to keep this?- ask her her intentions. i was very young when i was going out a man that ended up being gay. we only kissed, but we were a "couple" for over a year. we are still friends (over 20 years later), he hadn't come out of the closet and it looked good for him to be w/me. We've talked about this. He desperately wanted to be with a girl. I was the girl. I made it easy for him because I didn't sleep with him (i was 16 years old catholic girl). But he broke my heart. It destroyed my self esteem, and I didn't know why...I found out he was gay a few years after we drifted apart.

i agree with strong, it is much better to call a spade a spade and deal with whatever emotions/consequences are. I believe that many times, conflict is necessary, and if handled with respect and love anything can be solved. Much luck to you.

October 13, 2006
3:42 pm
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journeyman..

May I ask you, do you have a basis for your beliefs, as a religion of some sort, or have you formulated your beliefs on your own, or perhaps both?

October 13, 2006
5:05 pm
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on my way, i have never found much use for religion personally. I have had very in depth conversations with people who are devoted religiously and have tried to understand why or how... I can't begin to describe how many times I have questioned things in my life and I feel that should always continue. For me, I always thought that I couldn't find anything I needed outside that of what is myself. I wonder and I question that decision but ultimately I am who I am and I just need to get to know me. I am on a continuous quest to discover the peace and certainty that resides in, what I believe, is all of us.

doubleloss- I appreciate your comments and have to battle with the decision to stay constantly. I have never faced this and I almost feel that by doing so I am seeing what I am made of... a test of sorts. Like I said, it is easier to put away and walk away for me, so much. I constantly question myself about what I need/want and continuously ponder the points that Strong has brought up. I question whether or not what we need is time apart and maybe later something will happen but that has always been an excuse for a means to an end. With time we forget, we grow, we change, and I wonder if I want to be that person.

I am confused about:
a)Have I given it more than a fair shake and will not regret leaving?
b)Am I having an extreme reaction to an extreme situation in my life right now, or are my thoughts pure and clear?
c)I am not a bad person, I try and I try and for some reason I am always the one that gets kicked, or do I, or is this more of a gift to me than I can realize right now, if so, the gift to leave before the situation is more serious (marriage, etc.) or the gift of being presented with an out in such a powerful situation...
d)Feelings suck kinda...She tells me she has these excitement feelings for the woman but at the same time she has excitement for me...she did, at the very least, disclose the fact that she is excited because it is new and different...Should I equate that to the same feeling when you meet someone new and eventually don't care for? or should this be a signal to me to jump and run because reality is about to smack me in the face (like a 2x4)

Everyone knows that making yourself more open to anyone is a dangerous and risky venture. Maybe that's why so many people never really do. I am leaving myself vulnerable in so many ways and I can't for the life of me figure out if this is a sinister side effect of fear of abandonment, fear of regret, or if this really is necessary for the might be the greatest experience of all.

Confusion can only be dealt with in a structured and responsible manner and I know that being confused is not like being unknowing. The unknown is okay...confusion is not.

To make a somewhat strange and at the same time interesting point...I can feel her. I can sense things about her and I honestly now believe that there is a language inside of all of us that allows for this kind of connection but that is drowned out by verbal and learned communication. I feel that we should all be tought to listen to that 'gut' feeling but society has become very successful at suppressing all that is human to apply everyone to the same system of order. Enough sci fi for now... I still find myself seeking answers and I know that is not right...I hope to find a way to let that go. I need to focus on the journey and all that it brings with it...

October 13, 2006
7:20 pm
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doubleloss
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journey man. your nickname says it all. you're on a journey and you are seeking many answers, to me it feels that it is more answers about yourself than your girlfriend.

i truly believe that we cross paths with the people that we need in our lifes at certain points. sometimes it's forever, sometimes is just passing. i agree that we need to learn to trust our "gut" I guess our bodies and minds are much wisers than us (OK those are us, but i hope you know what i mean) and if we only follow that gut feeling, perhaps there would be much less heart break in the world.

being honest with one self is the main thing. i know many women that experiemented sexually with other women out of curiosity, confusion, pressure, etc, but are not gay nor bi. maybe that is the story w/ your gf, but be careful not to be the one in the back burner. it could be that both of you need time apart to sort yourselfs out, keep things friendly, honest and respectful, and who knows in a few months both of you might be so ready to be together that no other man, woman, or whatever other idstractions are out there, will come between you. so, trust your own advice, trust your gut.

it's great when guys post. take care.

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