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A SOLDIER'S LETTER FROM IRAQ
October 14, 2003
6:05 pm
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Ladeska
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US Soldiers to America: Bring Us Home Now
Monday, 13 October 2003, 10:29 am

Article: Jay Shaft

US Soldiers to America: "Bring us home now; we’re dying for oil and corporate greed!"

Part 1 in a 5 part series
Interviews by Jay Shaft
Coalition For Free Thought In Media
12th October 2003

I had the unique opportunity to interview five US military servicemen who just got back from Iraq, or in the case of two men, corresponded with their wives so that I could ask questions of these soldiers by mail. When the two I corresponded with came back just last week, I was able to complete the interviews I started several months ago with some new details on how the war is actually going.

I was shocked and angered when I found out how many of the service men hate being in Iraq and want nothing to do with rebuilding and policing the devastated nation. From the conversations I had, many soldiers never wanted to go over to Iraq and fight, and the ones who had were now convinced of the awful crime that had been committed against Iraq and our own troops. I was told very few soldiers now believe in staying in Iraq, or want to stay in the country and serve any more days.

The following interview was with an enlisted man, but someone very high up in the enlisted ranks, with over 20 years of military service. I have promised not to reveal his identity for reasons that he has a family and has been told not to speak to journalists. He told me the Army had put a gag order on him while he was home, and told him they would give him twenty years in prison if he spoke out in any manner against the US or the government.

I took several weeks to finish this interview because of not being able to safely be seen with this individual out of his fears of being caught speaking out.

He asked me to call him USA in all the transcripts of these interviews. I have followed his wishes and tried to write what he said in the manner it was said so as not to lose any impact. At times the interview was very rough and the grammar is not perfect, but I tried to write this in his voice so that he can tell the world how bad it is in Iraq. I truly want you to feel what he has experienced in some way if possible.

CFTM-- “How are you today? Resting I hope?”

USA-- “Can’t sleep for sh..t and I have horrible nightmares when I do sleep. I might be lucky to catch an hour at a time before the nightmares wake me up. I slept easier in the combat then now that I’m away from there. Most awful place I’ve ever been or served duty and I didn’t want to leave my guys. That was the hardest part was leaving the guys I had been leading around and trying to keep out of trouble and alive.”

CFTM-- “Did you see a lot of your buddies get killed? How did it affect you?”

USA-- “How the hell do you think it affected me? I saw over 30 of the men I had to keep safe die, and over 100 get wounded and not come back. I still don’t know if some of the wounded men made it or not. I was never told before I came back home.”

CFTM-- “So it really was awful and as bad as some returning troops have claimed?”

USA-- “It was like a long trip to hell that you knew you might return from. Of course it is as bad as the soldiers say it is. Hell it’s even worse if the truth has to come out. It’s a constant fu..ing nightmare trying to figure out where the guerillas are going to hit, how to keep the civilians calm, and also getting enough water and food to eat. That is one thing the media never really told the Americans about, how bad it was when our convoys weren’t getting through. We had to go to some Iraqi people and trade socks and underwear for some food and a little water.”

CFTM-- “You really did get that desperate because I saw it in the foreign media that the Iraqi civilians had stepped in and fed a whole bunch of troops that had been days without food.”

USA-- -“Yeah, that ain’t no joke about getting help from the civilians right after the invasion. We had a pretty good laugh about that and how the army owed them some money for reimbursement. We would not have starved probably, but when we got the food from the people it made sure we could still operate as a functioning unit. It was a near thing that several guys almost died of dehydration because we ran out of clean water for a few days.”

CFTM-- “Just keep going, I want to hear more about the hardships the military and Bush made you go through. I want the American people to know what a nightmare this war has become and what it’s doing to our service men over there.”

USA-- “Okay, well I can bitch about the problems like food being short and water going bad, but I want to tell people about how bad the attacks on US and coalition forces have gotten in the last month. In the last two weeks I was there we were attacked at least 20 times a day if you count all the shots we heard from random sniper or opportunity attacks. We were losing at least five men a day to injuries and there was at least one of our unit killed every twenty four hours.”

CFTM-- -“So you were getting one a day killed and at least five injured? Did you know many of the guys killed?”

USA-- -“That’s a real dumb fu..ing question to ask me. You know what my rank is, of course I knew them, I was the head NCO for years in our unit. I knew most of the guys who died and I held a lot of hands as they were dying. You tell me that’s not gonna to give you nightmares!”

“I had one guy tell me all he wanted was to see his little daughter; she was born three days after the war started. He died in the sand holding my hand and crying because his daughter would never know him. Tell me that’s fu..ing right. Where was George Bush when this kid was gasping for air and spitting his blood on foreign soil?”

CFTM-- -“I talked to you about this the other day. Do you think George Bush is the wrong man to order troops into battle when he ducked it himself?”

USA-- -“That asshole went AWOL and never showed up for duty and then he has the nerve to take us into two different wars that will be going on for years. I do not believe he should be president of this country, he’s a complete idiot and he’s controlled by madmen with a drive for only profits and getting oil.”

CFTM-- -“I just have to get this straight for the public, you are well educated are you not? I mean you have had years of leadership training and schools right? You sound very well informed and aware of the current lies and manipulations, which I have not found in some other soldiers.”

USA-- -“I have a four year degree in the economics field and I am not a soldier all the time. I am Reservist who just keeps getting caught on long duty assignments. Believe it or not I read authors like Noam Chomsky, Gore Vidal, and Jim Hightower, and went through three copies of ‘Stupid White Men’ by Michael Moore while I was over there. I let people read parts of Mike’s book and they were irate that Bush had screwed us so hard. I had parts of ‘Best Democracy Money Can Buy’ mailed to me because I knew if I had the whole book it would get stolen in a heartbeat.”

CFTM-- -“So you might be quite a bit more aware and well informed about the real reasons for the war that others did not know. I don’t know of many line soldiers reading Greg Palast or Noam Chomsky.”

USA-- -“I guess you’re right and that might be why I am trying to speak out and let the Americans know that they are sending us to be slaughtered. If you don’t mind I am going to cut through all the niceties and get down to why I am going against every oath I took and giving you this interview. I am doing it for the guys still over there and for the ones who are going. If I’m not careful I’ll end up back there for another six months.”

CFTM-- -“Alright tell me what it was really like and don’t skip the gory details. I want people to be shocked and offended enough to realize why you spoke out and what it is doing to our military by sending them over there with blind flag waving and cheers of false victory”

USA-- -“Well the first thing I would like to thank Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Congress for is that nice huge cut they made to Veterans Benefits as soon as the war started. I am in the Reserves after years of active duty and now I cannot get PTSD counseling or many medical benefits I used to take for granted. I knew I would have the benefits because I was laying my life down for my country. Now my benefits are cut by around 2/3 and I have to go to either group therapy or pay for a private counselor out of my own pocket. What happens when someone like me has been through enormous battle stress and combat fatigue and then comes home to no counseling?”

“I’ll tell you what is going to happen, he will either kill himself or take a bunch of people with him. Some of the guys coming back are going to have gone through the worst time of their lives with their buddies dying and getting hurt, and then they’ll find out they got screwed out of any counseling. It is the greatest disservice America is committing against soldiers who fought for this country and may come back wounded or horribly scarred. Medical services, school aid to dependents, school aid for the vets, all slashed to the bare bones; mental health and drug and alcohol counseling are being eliminated or the waiting lists will be years long for whatever services manage to survive.”

“That is one thing the American people still have not really caught on to is the fact that while they were screaming out ‘Support Our Troops’ the current regime makers were fu..ing the military and veterans out of almost every social program and non essential service that would make life easier.”

“Bush really fu..ked us while we were gone. We found out about after being in the middle of heavy fighting for several weeks. It was one of the first things I read in Stars and Stripes, and I thought it was a joke because it was just to hard to believe Congress and our leaders would screw us that bad while we were fighting and dying.”

CFTM-- -“Glad you brought that up about counseling because I wasn’t even aware of it. Are you alright to talk about some of the civilian casualties you witnessed and some of the horrifying images you told me about when we first started talking?”

USA-- -“I want to talk about some of the children I saw killed for no reason, maybe it will wake someone up who doesn’t believe it was happening, or that it was very bad. I can tell you I will never forget the screams of the wounded or orphaned kids, or the wailing of the parents who lost their kids. The Iraqis and most Muslims have a very vocal way of mourning the dead by lamenting and wailing for the dead. There is no mistaking a mother or father crying out in pain for the loss of a child. They don’t cry like that unless there has been a death. Sometimes after a bombing raid or an artillery attack you could here hundreds of people wiling and weeping.”

“I have several grown children with grand kids about the age of most of the dead children I saw in Iraq. I also have several kids who are about half grown and I saw a lot of Iraqi children that age wandering around in charge of three or four little ones because their parents were dead.”

“Let me tell you about the cluster bomb raid we saw wipe out a whole bunch of little kids. It looked like they had already lost their parents and were trying to salvage food from a destroyed Iraqi convoy by the side of the road we were on. The kids were way off to the side about half a mile away by then when we got the word that the Iraqi column was going to be hit with cluster bombs and we had to clear the area. We got on the radio and tried to get the air strike stopped but we were told it was too late to get it stopped.”

“We could see the body parts flying up into the air after the bombs hit. It was terrible and we could not do a damn thing but watch it happen and scream into the radio at the dumb sh.t pilot that was dropping the bombs. After the strike was over we went to see if there were any survivors and all we found was bits and pieces of little kids and here and there an arm or leg you could still identify.”

CFTM-- -“Pretty rough stuff to have to see. Did that kind of thing happen a lot?”

USA-- -“More than you can imagine until you’ve seen it over and over again. Man I don’t want to talk about this sh.t anymore. It doesn’t help to talk about it because it just makes me think about it again. I can’t even get any counseling without having to pay for it.”

“Let all those people who support our troops in on that nice surprise that Bush gave us. That’s how much we really mean to Bush, the Department of Defense and all those other stupid assholes who keep saying how good we’re doing over there. Let those patriotic morons go and fight and die for our country. Let them leave their families behind for months and maybe come back home in a box. I’ll be the first one to salute them or honor them when they die.”

“It’s just like Nam was in the beginning. I was twelve when my dad got back and I’ll never forget the pain and agony he lived with the rest of his life. Its kind of what I feel now, I suppose. I never thought I would ever serve in some stuff that’s so much like Nam it isn’t funny. Now I really see what my pop went through, and if I could I would go back in the past a few months, I would go AWOL or turn conscientious objector on them, but it’s too late for that now.”

“I damn sure will not go back over there even if they throw me in Leavenworth. I never could understand how a guy could be a conscientious objector until what I just went through. I wish more guys would stand up and tell Bush and the Pentagon they will not fight their war for oil. We should not have to die for these rich bastards profits and enrichment.”

CFTM-- -“Thank you for taking the risk and talking to me. I know there will be other soldiers who can’t speak out who will thank you for having the courage.”

USA-- -“It isn’t about courage it’s a matter of what’s right. This war is killing the poor or middle class American men and women who went in the armed forces to have college or some kind of better future. You don’t see the rich kids joining up or any Senator’s kid dying in Iraq. It’s us little guys who are dying over there or getting disabled for life. Where are the leaders that are supposed to be looking out for the little man? They are elected to look after out interests not the interests of Cheney and Halliburton, or any of the rest of the fat cats piling up the profits while the blood of our soldiers flows over their hands.”

CFTM-- -“Anything else you want to say to America? Any final thoughts or words?”

USA-- -“Yeah! Wake up America! Your sons and daughters are dying for nothing! This war is not about freedom or stopping terrorism. Bring us home now! We are dying for oil and corporate greed!”

*********

- Jay Shaft: Editor, Coalition For Free Thought In Media.

EMAIL: [email protected] WEB: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/.....htinmedia/

October 14, 2003
6:06 pm
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Ladeska
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OOPS! Didn't mean to post this here. Hopefully SC will move it to the other board.

Good letter though. These are the kinds of letters that are being "kept" from us....

October 14, 2003
6:32 pm
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The sentiment is shared by many soldiers who are being mobilized for further deployment there. Yep, we're still sending more troops...

October 14, 2003
6:50 pm
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Ladeska
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It's just horrific and these stories are just the tip of the iceberg because this getting out to mainstream public has really been sat on at every turn. But how long can you really keep this quiet?

October 14, 2003
9:25 pm
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This makes me really feel sick inside. How could anyone read this and not want to bring every one of our men and women home right now? What a nightmare!

October 14, 2003
9:57 pm
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hmmm :(((

October 14, 2003
10:19 pm
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Ladeska
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It's not a good situation and there have been many soldiers speaking out but they have to be really "careful" because they are basically being threatened about it. Now THIS is what I call Supporting the Troops, Bush!!

I don't know, I look at this letter, know what I know about Bush and cronies making money off all this, know a few other things I can't mention here, and look at what's going on in our own country and then I flash back to him getting stepping foot onto that aircraft carrier with his pants stuffed, the pilot who went AOL, and I just see his face and go.........quick, give me something to throw up in.

We've been hoodwinked guys. It was an elaborate plan, too. I mean where else can you go and find a production like the Jessica Lynch story - she's got medals out the whazoo, hush money do doubt as well, a book deal, movie deal and all for what? They had a car ACCIDENT!! They made a wrong turn!!! Don't be asking the G.I.'s what they think about that one either. They feel about the Jessica Lynch fanfare alot like the Vietnam Vets felt about Jan Fonda.

Just hold onto your hats guys because it's only just begun....."the truth of the matter" as it trickles out.

Shit flows downhill and alot is trickling down straight from the top.

How does that saying go? You can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people - all of the time.

And pride does always go before a fall. I find it interesting now to hear rumors in the mill that the media and such are ready now to "give Bush up" as their token fall guy. I guess after awhile, to save face - you have to do whatever in order to look good. Yea buddy, desert that sinking ship and pretend "you didn't know".

But, that's not so bad. I mean it's not like that will really hurt Bush or anything. He'll just laugh all the way to the bank.

I was thinking about something the other day.........so....how is it that we think we have a democracy when the President can write Executive Orders by the dozens into law without first passing through Congress and without you as a citizen having any input at all or even knowing about it? And with the veto powers of the President added into that mix - I mean - doesn't this look more like a dictatorship than a democracy? If you don't know anything about the history of Executive Orders and what they were originally supposed to be for and "only for" - I encourage you to look into it. I also encourage you to look at how many the last few presidents have written while in office.

Of course, that's not surprising when you consider the Federal Reserve Act was rammed through as well and quite a few of our founding fathers warned profusely about this kind of thing and yet....there we go "being bought". I think that's a huge part of the problem now. Who are those banking families anyways?

But don't ask Senator MacFadden about any of that. Oh yea, I forgot, he was murdered because he tried to warn the American people about it.

October 14, 2003
10:39 pm
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Not quite sure how I feel about this letter...

October 15, 2003
12:27 am
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I think technically, the US isn't a democracy, right? Electoral college and all that? I'm fuzzy on my history though, I was too busy junior year of high school obsessing about zits and SAT scores to pay much attention in American History...

Fascinating how the system works. No wonder people don't want to vote anymore.

October 15, 2003
2:07 pm
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I'm just a little confused here. Being prior military I find some of this hard to swallow. No one likes war, but it is necessary. No one wants to be in war, but that is a job one takes when in the service. Loyalty to your country and pride in our freedom.

I would not want to be our President during this time, but I must take my hat off to him. We had to do something when our freedom was under attack, if not we would have been the target of so much more.

When a person has been in the military they have a sense of pride when they see the American flag, and when the the American Anthem is played or sung it sends shivers down your spine, not to mention when the Marine Corps hymn is played.

I guess I don't understand what people are thinking when they join the military and think they will never see blood shed or asked to something for the good of the country. I am not saying that everything we have been asked to do was fully understood but I don't feel that the missions that were requested were for political gain.

This is just my opion, I am proud of our troops over seas and support thier cause 100%. Instead of bashing what is being done, how about giving some suggestions that could make things better. It takes alot to stand for something and so little to tear it down.

This comment was not offend anyone and no two people will see eye to eye on an issue such as this, that is what makes us who we are.

Thanks evi

October 15, 2003
3:27 pm
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Hey Evi, I completely see your point. My boyfriend is in the army national guard, and his brigade was just put on alert a few weeks ago to go support Operation Iraqi Freedom. There are a lot of troops who have been over there a long time who need a break, and his reserve group is in line to relieve them. The discussions I have seen between him and his squad (and others in the battalion) indicate that all of them will go and do their duty in the way that they have been trained, but most of them are extremely disappointed to be sent to carry out a mission that the rest of the world does not support, including the Iraqi people if news reports are to be believed.

The point I think we might be missing here is that being in Iraq is not "The Troop's Cause". They are there because they have to be, and I highly doubt that they are complaining about performing their obligation. They are complaining about the cause itself.

For those of us who work at companies, it would be the equivalent of compaining about work or projects that are ill-conceived. We don't complain about being there (if so, find another job or take a reality pill, please). We complain and feel terrible about performing a job that is pursuing a vision that we fundamentally do not agree with, yet have no choice but to support. Except in the case of the worker, the sacrifice is time, energy and spirit, whereas for our troops overseas, the potential sacrifice is life itself.

October 15, 2003
4:59 pm
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TEN LIES BUSH TOLD US ABOUT IRAQ

"The Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and the world with horrible poisons and diseases and gases and atomic weapons."
– George Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in a speech in Cincinnati.

There is a small somber box that appears in the New York Times every day. Titled simply "Killed in Iraq," it lists the names and military affiliations of those who most recently died on tour of duty. Wednesday's edition listed just one name: Orenthial J. Smith, age 21, of Allendale, South Carolina.

The young, late O.J. Smith was almost certainly named after the legendary running back, Orenthal J. Simpson, before that dashing American hero was charged for a double-murder. Now his namesake has died in far-off Mesopotamia in a noble mission to, as our president put it on March 19, "disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger."

Today, more than three months after Bush's stirring declaration of war and nearly two months since he declared victory, no chemical, biological or nuclear weapons have been found, nor any documentation of their existence, nor any sign they were deployed in the field.

The mainstream press, after an astonishing two years of cowardice, is belatedly drawing attention to the unconscionable level of administrative deception. They seem surprised to find that when it comes to Iraq, the Bush administration isn't prone to the occasional lie of expediency but, in fact, almost never told the truth.

What follows are just the most outrageous and significant of the dozens of outright lies uttered by Bush and his top officials over the past year in what amounts to a systematic campaign to scare the bejeezus out of everybody:

LIE #1: "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program ... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." – President Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati.

FACT: This story, leaked to and breathlessly reported by Judith Miller in the New York Times, has turned out to be complete baloney. Department of Energy officials, who monitor nuclear plants, say the tubes could not be used for enriching uranium. One intelligence analyst, who was part of the tubes investigation, angrily told The New Republic: "You had senior American officials like Condoleezza Rice saying the only use of this aluminum really is uranium centrifuges. She said that on television. And that's just a lie."

LIE #2: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." – President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.

FACT: This whopper was based on a document that the White House already knew to be a forgery thanks to the CIA. Sold to Italian intelligence by some hustler, the document carried the signature of an official who had been out of office for 10 years and referenced a constitution that was no longer in effect. The ex-ambassador who the CIA sent to check out the story is pissed: "They knew the Niger story was a flat-out lie," he told the New Republic, anonymously. "They [the White House] were unpersuasive about aluminum tubes and added this to make their case more strongly."

LIE #3: "We believe [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." – Vice President Cheney on March 16, 2003 on "Meet the Press."

FACT: There was and is absolutely zero basis for this statement. CIA reports up through 2002 showed no evidence of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program.

LIE #4: "[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." – CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush.

FACT: Intelligence agencies knew of tentative contacts between Saddam and al-Qaeda in the early '90s, but found no proof of a continuing relationship. In other words, by tweaking language, Tenet and Bush spun the intelligence180 degrees to say exactly the opposite of what it suggested.

LIE #5: "We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases ... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints." – President Bush, Oct. 7.

FACT: No evidence of this has ever been leaked or produced. Colin Powell told the U.N. this alleged training took place in a camp in northern Iraq. To his great embarrassment, the area he indicated was later revealed to be outside Iraq's control and patrolled by Allied war planes.

LIE #6: "We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles] for missions targeting the United States." – President Bush, Oct. 7.

FACT: Said drones can't fly more than 300 miles, and Iraq is 6,000 miles from the U.S. coastline. Furthermore, Iraq's drone-building program wasn't much more advanced than your average model plane enthusiast. And isn't a "manned aerial vehicle" just a scary way to say "plane"?

LIE #7: "We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established." – President Bush, Feb. 8, 2003, in a national radio address.

FACT: Despite a massive nationwide search by U.S. and British forces, there are no signs, traces or examples of chemical weapons being deployed in the field, or anywhere else during the war.

LIE #8: "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets." – Secretary of State Colin Powell, Feb. 5 2003, in remarks to the UN Security Council.

FACT: Putting aside the glaring fact that not one drop of this massive stockpile has been found, as previously reported on AlterNet the United States' own intelligence reports show that these stocks – if they existed – were well past their use-by date and therefore useless as weapon fodder.

LIE #9: "We know where [Iraq's WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat." – Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003, in statements to the press.

FACT: Needless to say, no such weapons were found, not to the east, west, south or north, somewhat or otherwise.

LIE #10: "Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited." – President Bush in remarks in Poland, published internationally June 1, 2003.

FACT: This was reference to the discovery of two modified truck trailers that the CIA claimed were potential mobile biological weapons lab. But British and American experts – including the State Department's intelligence wing in a report released this week – have since declared this to be untrue. According to the British, and much to Prime Minister Tony Blair's embarrassment, the trailers are actually exactly what Iraq said they were; facilities to fill weather balloons, sold to them by the British themselves.

So, months after the war, we are once again where we started – with plenty of rhetoric and absolutely no proof of this "grave danger" for which O.J. Smith died. The Bush administration is now scrambling to place the blame for its lies on faulty intelligence, when in fact the intelligence was fine; it was their abuse of it that was "faulty."

Rather than apologize for leading us to a preemptive war based on impossibly faulty or shamelessly distorted "intelligence" or offering his resignation, our sly madman in the White House is starting to sound more like that other O.J. Like the man who cheerfully played golf while promising to pursue "the real killers," Bush is now vowing to search for "the true extent of Saddam Hussein's weapons programs, no matter how long it takes."

On the terrible day of the 9/11 attacks, five hours after a hijacked plane slammed into the Pentagon, retired Gen. Wesley Clark received a strange call from someone (he didn't name names) representing the White House position: "I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, 'You got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism. This has to be connected to Saddam Hussein,'" Clark told Meet the Press anchor Tim Russert. "I said, 'But – I'm willing to say it, but what's your evidence?' And I never got any evidence.'"

And neither did we.

October 15, 2003
5:25 pm
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For many more lies, please visit...

Bush Lies --->

October 15, 2003
6:07 pm
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The weapons are in Syria. They were tested on the Kurds in the deserts.

With all the previous attacks on the US and the declarations of war on us (icluding but not limited to the USS Cole and attacks on our embassies) how could one possibly believe that we are not a target of these people?

why would Bush lie? I want to know the reason and the motive behind the accusation of tricking our country into war. Why? Because if it's true that we were tricked into WWII, then thank God we were. Whether or not a President has lied to me is not as important as whether or not he did it to save my life and the lives of my children and their children....I expect my government to preserve my freedom and maintain my security at all costs because that's just number one on my priority list.
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October 15, 2003
6:42 pm
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The "why" someone would lie.....is not always easy to answer. It takes some digging. Layers upon layers have to be revealed. And the ones lying will do everything in their power to make that as difficult as is humanly possible.

This is a little stroll through history and a bit of "strategy" that's been deployed over and over again as - how to mainpulate the masses in the direction you want them to go. It's really not that hard. People as a rule "believe" very easily. Ask any con artist on the street.

Fake Terror

Sometimes Pysche Ops aren't just used on our enemy...sometimes they are used on us.

October 16, 2003
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I'm not finding the reason for lying in these links. I don't mean to argue or attack, I just want to know the reason. I already know all the politicians lie and cover up., that's what they do in orer to achieve their agenda. But knowing the motive reveals the agenda. I'm not finding the reason. War is expensive and our country already leads the world in natural resources (second only to Canada) and is an economic superpower. Seems to me we have virtually everything to lose-nothing to gain and this is why it is so hard to get our country into war. Every time our embassy is attacked is an open declaration of war yet we hardly ever respond because of the potential losses of doing so. Always has been this way. So, what could be the reason for this one if it wasn't threat to our security? Doesn't seem like it's oil- I for one haven't seen any positive results on the oil and gas front here at home.

Let's say for a moment that Sadaam Hussein had the ability to wipe out our nation. Do you think he would do it?
free

October 16, 2003
12:57 pm
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Free...good questions. The problem is - there are many reasons, they just aren't that visible to the American public, regular citizen. We all wnat to believe what we see on the tube and don't look much farther than that. I've been as guilty of that as anyone else. Hell, that's the way we were all raised. Worship the little black box. It will do your thinking for you and make you feel good as well. Take your poison with a teaspoon of honey, sweetie... We have not been taught how to critically think as a rule. Doesn't come naturally to us. We have to go at things like this alot like a detective does. You really have to fight against being biased even if it means going against whatever fairy tale you've been told. You have to look at the facts and be a fact finder and turn over every leaf and ask critical questions regardless of your feelings - the answer may completely upset your whole world as you know it and believe it to be.

If you talk to any FBI agent or coroner, criminal specialist, etc. - you will see that the one thing they always have to do is - wipe the slant clean and do their critical analysis and if it means turning things upside down and making people uncomfortable doing so - in order to get to the truth, then that's what has to happen. Things that are often very deadly and dangerous......are extremely well hidden and disguised so you're not always going to see it the first look, or the second or the third. But the more you examine, the more pieces of the puzzle you get and the more things start connecting.

Alot of people are holding hands here regarding certain agendas. Some of it has to do with the people who are making money off this war and it's sure NOT the American people. You don't have to look far if you investigate Bush and Cheney's dealings with Halliburton, Brown and Root and the like. War is usually started for reasons that has everything to do with money and power......that goes into the pockets of a "few".

There very much is a New World Order objective here. Bush, Sr. made no bones about telling us that one. Just heard a speech the other night that he did on 9/11 ten years ago that spoke about his aims as far as a New World Order is concerned. If you want to look into that one - go buy the book - Secret of the Tomb - which is a very good book regarding what the Skull & Bones is all about. A very brave and persistent young lady dug into this one and got quite harrassed about it, too.

Both Bush's are a member of the Skull & Bones. I mean it's not just a little frat club thing. When you read this book - that becomes exceedingly clear. These guys have big bucks, lots of power and it's a "big secret" what they do. Hm,m,m...

Skull & Bones is an offshoot of the Illuminati. This isn't just conspiracy stuff. It's hard facts. And when you study the doctrine that these people uphold and are aiming towards implementing and quite honestly - are implementing.. It's not about protecting you and yours. It's about putting the power, the wealth and welfare of a "few" front and center and what you do is....serve them and basically become their slaves.

It's not a fun thing to look at or think about but if you really start researching things - some very disturbing stuff that's very, very real starts surfacing. But it's like if you just take in what's fed to you and never ask any questions and do your own research - then you won't get it. I know I never did.

But it's like Afghanistan for example. We had plans to go into that country long before 9/11 happened. It was about an oil pipeline. Bush and the Bin Laden family have been doing business with each other for a long, long time. IN fact, on the day of 9/11, Bush, Sr. was just down the street in a meeting that had everything to do with that family and their money making ventures together.

We put Osama and Saddam in power. And no, they aren't very nice guys, but it's no big secret that we play ball with some really scary people and then when some thing goes array and they don't play ball like we want them to - then they become terrorists and the bad guys. What? They weren't that before? We didn't help them get there?

And as far as the Mid-East is concerned, there is much more going on there than meets the eye...

All I can really say to you, Free...is if you really want to know the "whys" - you have to do your own research and really want to know in your heart of hearts - what's up? I can sit here all day long and try and convince you of whatever but it won't do much good. It never worked with me either way back when. I had to really start questionning on my own. It was hard for me to realize I had been quite brainwashed about so many things.

And the solutions are in....the American people realizing that this country is By the People and FOR the People........not in spite of us and for a select few....

We Americans don't have the kind of history that other countries have... We don't really know what it feels like, what it smells like to be taken over by someone or something. And we're very proud. We think we can't be fooled. Scary place to be. We so readily accept the rah-rah feel good kind of stuff without really examining things alot closer. Yea, okay, you do a good parade and that was a good sales pitch but what does this really "mean"........? And I'll be checking into this and that and finding out because - this is MY country!

We treat the President more like he's God and he's not. He's our SERVANT. I can't beleive the cocky way he deals with the press and how locked down and unapproachable he is. And if the guy doesn't have it scripted for him - he's just out in left field wandering around. Alot like he was before he became President. I mean if you look at the guys track record as far as his success as a businessman before he took office - it's just not there. He was an idiot. AND he went AWOL on his national guard duty. He's a puppet figure but what people like us need to find out is - who is controlling the strings behind the scenes? Who are the real invisible leaders?

One thing, too that's extremely disturbing is the whole Federal Reserve thing. I mean really look into how that all went down. And look into what the founders of our country had to say about that in many warnings to us. Check out Senator MacFadden - see how he tried to warn the American public and how he ended up being very dead as a result.

You're not going to see the "whys" of things glaring you in the face as "the obvious", Free. You have to do your homework and you have to be willing to see things that really make you uncomfortable and goes against alot of fairy tales we've been told. It's not easy to do that. Believe me, being the other way is a helluva lot more comfy.

But the future of this country depends on each and every American doing their homework and asking hard tough questions of our leaders and not stopping until we get answers. Solutions? It starts there.....

Blind trust.......will make us blind indeed.

Regarding your question about would Saddam wipe us out if he could? I really don't know. He might and he might not. Depends on whether it was profitable for him to do so. But one thing people don't quite do is - really look around and see who is outfitted to launch something right at us - and their weapons are not buried somewhere in an Iraqi rose garden either. We'd better be real worried about people who do have that capability and will use it if they want to. For goodness sakes here - just take a look in Korea's direction. Um...I think that's WMD glaring us in the face or did I miss something? And they aren't the only ones either.

And I get sooo tired of hearing how we have freed the Iraqi's! That sounds good, I mean Saddam was an asshole supreme, no doubt about it but ever ask the question "why" we stood around and watched what went down in Uganda a few years ago? I mean it's all fine and good that we are doing the nice human thing here but - what happened in Uganda was just pure butchery. Their rivers flowed with dead body parts and blood and I do mean FLOWED and yet - we and the rest of the world just stood back and said - um, we can't help you. Women had their babies cut out of their wombs for crying outloud. Look into the account of what all went down there. See how not only us but the U.N. just turned it's back on these people. I guess they didn't have oil and they weren't in the middle east. There have been quite a few holocausts on this planet and we are not always the guys that go running in to save the day either.

Some good movies to rent that are actually rather factual are - "Missing", "Salvador", "Roger and Me", "Animal Farm" (not the cartoon version, it stinks), "Network" and "1984" to name a few.

I know you're not attacking or just being argumentative, Free. I understand that. You're just asking good questions, trying to wrestle with stuff that comes at you. I'm not a conspiracy nut or anti-establishment just to be a rebel. But it's just real hard for me to see what's going on and turn my head and act like I don't see. Denial is an ugly condition. And for a whole nation to do that - can be quite deadly. It's time we held our leaders accountable and made our voices heard.

For starters...........SOOO....why did you tell all these lies Mr. President?

October 16, 2003
3:48 pm
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Correction - I meant to say up above - "Rwanda" instead of Uganda. I do that all the time... Anyways, here's the scoop on that massacre of over 800,000 people. I think that's a sufficient number for a holocaust, don't you? Really get into how things went with the U.N., too. Very interesting that we all just sat on the sidelines and watched...

I don't know, I get confused - I mean if we're going to be the World's Policeman and the one who rescues everyone from the dark hairy stranger then - what about - Rwanda? Guess there wasn't enough money on the table or oil to be had or land to be grabbed for some illicit reason.

There's one account, and I think it's on this website that just tore my heart out because I saw the video footage of this woman - who was in this group that had been hiding in the jungle for days knowing that - their death was imminent, was right behind them so to speak and they were BEGGING the U.N. people that were now leaving them and getting onboard a plane to please, please not desert them!! One woman in particular was very pregnant at the time and she just turned to this one U.N. woman and said - woman to woman, mother to mother, please, please help me and my baby. As soon as you leave, they are going to come out of the jungle and cut us up with knives and cut my living baby from my stomach, you must help me!! The U.N. woman told her that she could not help her and turned and walked away. Hours later - the massacre happened. Pictures were shown later of pregnant women, children, whoever - just cut to ribbons and yes, unborn babies cut from their mothers.

And oh....I think a month later, Clinton touched down in his little plane, kept the engines running while he talked and - gave a little speech about how - he hated what happened but time to heal now and basically - just get over it and get on with it. (Alot like what Bush says these days when you try and pin him down on a lie) Oh let's just MOVE ON!!

He got back on his little plane and zoom, zoom, off he went. Wow, what compassion, what FURY that we went in and protected these people!!! I mean if we did it for Iraq - we surely must have done it for Rwanda, right?

Holocaust in Rwanda

October 16, 2003
5:31 pm
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I am with you on all of this, ladeska. I am impressed by your spirit and mind.
I am sickened and angry by what is taking place in the u.s and how your beautiful young men and women who were just looking for a better life, are being slaughtered like sheep and YES it is all in the name of money and power. I have read parts of the Secret of the Tomb and Bush sr and Bush jr's involvment with. They are surrounded by some nasty, negative stuff and using it all for the sake of power.
It creeps me out.
I really am thinking, what the hell can we do.?
What can we do?
Nostradamus did predict all this, he was a smart man. It is up to us to change our future.

October 16, 2003
5:31 pm
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Many Troops Dissatisfied, Iraq Poll Finds

By Bradley Graham and Dana Milbank, Washington Post Staff Writers

A broad survey of U.S. troops in Iraq (news - web sites) by a Pentagon (news - web sites)-funded newspaper found that half of those questioned described their unit's morale as low and their training as insufficient, and said they do not plan to reenlist.

The survey, conducted by the Stars and Stripes newspaper, also recorded about a third of the respondents complaining that their mission lacks clear definition and characterizing the war in Iraq as of little or no value. Fully 40 percent said the jobs they were doing had little or nothing to do with their training.

The findings, drawn from 1,935 questionnaires presented to U.S. service members throughout Iraq, conflict with statements by military commanders and Bush administration officials that portray the deployed troops as high-spirited and generally well-prepared. Though not obtained through scientific methods, the survey results suggest that a combination of difficult conditions, complex missions and prolonged tours in Iraq is wearing down a significant portion of the U.S. force and threatening to provoke a sizable exodus from military service.

In the first of a week-long series of articles, Stars and Stripes said yesterday that it undertook the survey in August after receiving scores of letters from troops who were upset with one aspect or another of the Iraq operation. The newspaper, which receives some funding from the Defense Department but functions without editorial control by the Pentagon, prepared 17 questions and sent three teams of reporters to Iraq to conduct the survey and related interviews at nearly 50 camps.

"We conducted a 'convenience survey,' meaning we gave it to those who happened to be available at the time rather than to a randomly selected cross section, so the results cannot necessarily be projected as representing the whole population," said David Mazzarella, the paper's editorial director here. "But we still think the findings are significant and make clear that the troops have a different idea of things than what their leaders have been saying."

Experts in public opinion and the military concurred that the poll was not necessarily representative, but they characterized it as a useful gauge of troop sentiment. "The numbers are consistent with what I suspect is going on there," said David Segal, a military sociologist at the University of Maryland at College Park. "I am getting a sense that there is a high and increasing level of demoralization and a growing sense of being in something they don't understand and aren't sure the American people understand."

The paper quoted Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, saying in a Sept. 9 interview for the series that "there is no morale problem." He said complaints among troops are "expected" and part of "the Army's normal posture," whether the soldiers are deployed or not.

"We haven't had time to study the survey, but we take all indicators of morale seriously," said Bryan Whitman, a senior Pentagon spokesman. "It's the reason we've instituted several programs to address morale and welfare issues." A White House spokesman had no comment.

Some military experts pointed to good news for the administration in the survey. Military historian Eliot Cohen, who serves on a Pentagon advisory panel, noted that the proportion that said the war was worthwhile -- 67 percent -- and the proportion of troops that said they have a clearly defined mission -- 64 percent -- are "amazingly high." He added that complaints are typical. "American troops have a God-given right and tradition of grumbling," he said.

In the survey, 34 percent described their morale as low, compared with 27 percent who described it as high and 37 percent who said it was average; 49 percent described their unit's morale as low, while 16 percent called it high.

In recent days, the Bush administration has launched a campaign to blame the news media for portraying the situation in Iraq in a negative light. Last week, Bush described the military spirit as high and said that life in Iraq is "a lot better than you probably think. Just ask people who have been there."

But Stars and Stripes raised questions about what those visiting dignitaries saw in Iraq. "Many soldiers -- including several officers -- allege that VIP visits from the Pentagon and Capitol Hill are only given hand-picked troops to meet with during their tours of Iraq," the newspaper said in its interview with Sanchez. "The phrase 'Dog and Pony Show' is usually used. Some troops even go so far as to say they've been ordered not to talk to VIPs because leaders are afraid of what they might say."

The newspaper also noted in that interview that its reporters were told that some soldiers who had complained of morale problems had faced disciplinary actions known as Article 15s, which can result in reprimand, extra duties and forfeiture of pay. Sanchez said he did not know of any such punishments, but he added that they would have been handled at a lower level.

The paper's project recorded significant differences in the morale of various units, but overall found that Army troops tended to sound more dissatisfied than Air Force personnel and Marines, and that reservists were the most troubled.

Uncertainty about when they are returning home was a major factor in dampening morale, according to the newspaper. The interviews were conducted at a time when some reserve and regular Army units were learning that their tours had been extended. The Pentagon has since sought to provide a clearer rotation plan and has begun granting troops two-week home leaves.

Although Pentagon officials say they have seen no sign yet of a rise in the number of troops deciding against reenlisting, the survey suggested that such a surge may be coming soon. A total of 49 percent of those questioned said it was "very unlikely" or "not likely" that they would remain in the military after they complete their current obligations. In the past, enlistment rates tended to drop after conflicts, but many defense experts and noncommissioned officers have warned of the potential for a historically high exodus, particularly of reservists.

October 16, 2003
6:28 pm
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This cracks me up and alarms me, but this is what you have to really pay attention to....this article above was the first one on the yahoo news and I've been watching it all day - was only there for just a little bit. I copy it, post it here and then marvel that it ever got put up in the first place. Well....as long as it took me to do all that - I come back to yahoo's front page and it's gone. Now....I've seen the same stories stay on there all day long, especially if it's something like Brittany and Madonna's kiss or some crap.

Now I go and this article below is up there so I'm like - Hell, I better copy this one off before it disappears also! That's nothing new though. Especially with news stories, if you listen to the first breaking stories - there are alot of things in "that" story that you will never hear again or you just won't hear anything at all again - about whatever it was.

Here's the other article..regarding Free asking "why"? (smile)

Halliburton Allegedly Overcharges in Iraq

Thu Oct 16, 2:23 AM ET Add Politics -

By LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Two Democratic lawmakers say Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites)'s former company, Halliburton, is gouging U.S. taxpayers while importing gasoline into Iraq (news - web sites). The Houston-based company contends it is paying the best price possible.

Reps. Henry Waxman of California and John Dingell of Michigan complained to the Bush administration that Halliburton's KBR subsidiary is billing the Army between $1.62 and $1.70 per gallon, while the average price for Middle East gasoline is 71 cents.

They also complained that Iraqis are charged between 4 cents and 15 cents at the pump for the imported gasoline.

"Although Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world, the U.S. taxpayer is, in effect, subsidizing over 90 percent of the cost of gasoline sold in Iraq," the lawmakers said in the latest Democratic attacks against the Houston company that received a no-bid contract.

The charges cover the purchase and transportation of the petroleum from Kuwait and other countries.

Halliburton, originally hired to extinguish oil fires, has received the expanded role of restoring Iraq's oil industry. The company has been paid $1.4 billion through September for its work.

"KBR is not responsible for establishing the price Iraqi motorists pay for gasoline at the pump," Halliburton spokeswoman Wendy Hall said.

She said the company negotiates "fair and competitive prices" with suppliers outside Iraq and must transport the gasoline in a hostile environment.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which chose Halliburton, has received bids for a replacement contract that could be awarded this month.

Corps spokesman Robert Faletti said he could not confirm the figures that Waxman and Dingell cited in a letter to Joshua Bolten, director of the Office of Management and Budget.

He said, however, that the contract is being audited by Congress and the Army.

In a further move against Halliburton, Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., announced Wednesday he would propose barring the government from awarding Iraq reconstruction contracts to companies that maintain close financial ties to the president, vice president or members of the president's Cabinet.

Lautenberg wants the measure added to an $87 billion reconstruction bill for Iraq and Afghanistan (news - web sites).

Cheney receives deferred payments from Halliburton and also has stock options.

Cheney's office has said the vice president had no role in the contract and that the deferred payments were for his services while he headed the company. He has said he would give the proceeds to charity should he profit from the exercise of stock options.

***** WELL, I guess if Dick said it then that it just must be SO, too!!! Think I remember Clinton and Nixon saying similar words....I dunno guys, help me out here - isn't this a conflict of interests or something like that?

October 16, 2003
7:01 pm
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Myst.. Hi there and welcome here! One thing we can do and should do is for one - become real educated on things, dig into history, read, read, find out what's what yourself. Don't take mine or anyone else's opinion for anything.

Next, when you really get to a point where you connect enough dots and are sickened by what you see - bug the complete hell out of the people you have elected to office. Make them accutely and uncomfortable aware that - this country is the "People's Country". And they are our servants and they need to bloody act like it or else.

We tend to elect people, put them in power and then off we go - into our own little worlds. Um...you can't DO that when you're the richest and most powerful country on the planet. If you DO.......then who is guarding the hen house?

No one.

You can't wave all that money and all that power around in the air without it drawing a wolf at some point and a very good one at that.

And yes........whatever deception will be a good one and it will be hard to penetrate but if you have something worth protecting and something that is valuable to you - then you'll do the work which is supposed to be WHAT the American people are all about. However....in these past few decades I think we've been rather asleep at the wheel.

For example, you can either call the Printing office of Congress and get a copy of what goes on, play by play, word for word, in the House and the Senate. I used to work on Capitol Hill - it's there for the citizens to get or you can go online and follow what goes on every day with the bills and laws.

One thing about that I will say is - I witnessed firsthand that before it actually goes to print though, a copy of what you said in there is routed to you so that you can change it if you like before it goes to print. Kinda interesting, huh?

But people need to get involved in their government. No two ways about it. It needs to be just as important as getting that next meal or picking out that next nice outfit.

We can't just expect to sit on all this and it not be taken away from us real easy and the best way for that to happen is from "within".... I don't know about anyone else, but I was raised in the south and I know all about how those good ole boys like Clinton and supposed Cowboy Bush (yea right) can play people like a fiddle. They are real good at it, just like quite a few good ole southern evangelist con artists I've met, too. Not much difference between them and some Tinkers I've seen. They can smile and do the Ride Em Cowboy routine and I'm for the little guy and all that horseshit and they can lift your wallet, your car and your wife right out from under you in about two seconds flat. And oh don't forget the children you might have that they can molest as well while they are at it. And that is all in the Name of God, alot like what Bush is saying these days...God told him to do all this...God is on HIS side. That's kinda grandiose stuff going on there... A wee bit scary and hints of psychological imbalance.

So go look up the Congressional Record, find out who your people are in Congress, make them your best buddy or make them wish they'd never heard from you and make them "hear" from ALOT. And then when it comes time to vote - make it count and VOTE. And while you're at it - you might want to take a gander into the accountability factor of the NEW voting machines and see what you think about that one as well.

It's YOUR government, you have a right to know ALOT of things you aren't being told and being locked out of knowing - every day.

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