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A question for the guys...and women who guys have left their wives for...
May 18, 2006
8:58 am
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revelation
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Hi All,

I wanted to put two questions to you all...one for the guys...and one for any of you who have been in a relationship with a guy who left his wife/girlfriend for....(not sure if there is anyone on the board who has had this experience???)

Some background before I ask my questions:
Yet again today I've heard another story from one of my friends about a loving devoted mother and wife being completely discarded by her husband.

The latest story was that of Irene, a friend of one of my work colleagues, Irene is 38 and from Spain, she met Paul who is Irish, when she was 18, in her hometown of Madrid, when Paul went to college there to study spanish architecture, he was 23 when they met. Paul was Irene's first boyfriend, they fell in love, and when Paul came back to Ireland after a year, they continued a long distance romance with frequent trips back and forward to Spain and Ireland. When Irene was 22, she finally moved to Ireland, she got along very well with Pauls family, and they soon got married. Paul was an up and coming architect at this stage, and they settled down to married life. Paul travelled with his job from time to time, when they were first married Irene would accompany him on these trips when she could. She started to work for a large legal firm. At 27 Irene had their first child, and at 31 their second, she gave up work and became a stay-at-home mum. To their friends, Paul and Irene seemed very happy, and friends would describe Paul as a family man. He was, by all accounts, devoted to his wife and family. In 2004, Paul began a new contract with a firm based in USA, and had to take frequent business trips there, but Irene didn't mind, at this stage, she was used to these trips, they spoke on the phone every night.
One day six weeks ago, Paul, was in Ireland, and had left for the office, Irene got up to make breakfast and get the kids ready for school, then she picked up the post, and set down with a cup of tea to go through the bills etc. before starting to tidy up the house. One of the letters, contained an airplane ticket, the name on the ticket was female and not recognisable, but it was bought by Paul and was a ticket for a flight from the US to Ireland. Irene asked Paul later that night, who the ticket was for, and Paul confessed that he'd met someone else, an american woman, aged 21. He told Irene he didn't love her anymore and wanted a seperation. Irene was devestated, she now sleeps all day and cannot look after the children, she cannot eat and has lost weight and looks gaunt, she is on anti-depressants. After Paul packed up, he immediately asked for a transfer, and is now working for the UK subsidiary of his company, his American girlfriend is making plans to move to the UK to be with him as I write. Paul has called Irene twice in the last six weeks, once to tell her of his transfer, and once to inform her that he had consulted with a lawyer about the seperation. He's told her that of course he misses her, of course he misses the kids, but he was not happy in the marriage and needs to do what makes HIM happy "for a change" !!!!!! He has made no plans or promises to see the children, as he said to Irene "It is too upsetting for me".

I have heard about 5 or 6 such horrific stories in the last few months from friends, where a seemingly happy guy, just all of a sudden abandons his lover and his responsibilities, in such a cold manner, with absolutely no second-thoughts or remorse. I've rarely hard of a woman doing this.

I am by NO means saying that the guys who post here are ANYTHING like this man, but...I'd like to ask...can you possibily help me to understand WHY men do this? And HOW can they just walk out on their lives so easily? Is it something intrinsicly different mens V women's psychological make-up that makes them able to do this, without even discussing it??? If so...PLEASE, tell me what it is!!

My question for those of you, who may have been in a relationship with a man who has walked out on someone for you....I'd like to ask...didn't it put you off? Was it not a huge red-flag that this man could be so cold? Or is it that perhaps, the women who stay with these men, have such low self-esteem that all and any red-flags and warning signs are ignored?

Thanks, for readin...would really like your opinions.

Rev.

May 18, 2006
10:06 am
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Rev,

Hi. First off, there is NO excuse for a man to leave his wife like that.

A guy's attention is prone to wander unless he takes pains to keep it focused where it should be -- on his wife. It doesn't matter how loving and devoted and sacrificing she is to him. Sad to say, all a woman can do is encourage her husband's attentions by taking reasonable (note the word "reasonable") care of herself. She cannot prevent his attention from wandering by anything she does.

Men are often out for long periods of time away from home, and are constantly running across women here and there who are also away from their own homes. Add to this the fact that it can be quite intoxicating when a young woman gives a man her attention, that men are attracted naturally to visual beauty, and that many young women are attracted to older men. All of this is like nitroglycerine, ready to explode.

It is NO excuse for a man to leave his wife, devoted or otherwise, however. I cannot emphasize that enough. Sadly, our culture doesn't teach loyalty to one's wife like it used to. Women are naturally prone to be loyal, IMO, whereas men aren't.

So the reason, IMO, that men leave their wives is they do not discipline themselves as they ought to. There's no excuse for that. And society doesn't encourage them to so discipline themselves as it used to.

Seeker

May 18, 2006
10:36 am
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hey Rev..i would ask your friend Irene, honestly, if she felt the marriage slipping or something, cuz i just can't beleive that someone would up and out leave there wife, there must have been some type of build up to this...when Irene was with him, did he seem distant and pre occupied??? was the love and caressing and caring still there.....either way, what this man did was so wrong, to up and end a marriage, esp not caring about the children. I myself, think this type of person (the man listed above who cheated) is just selfish, and the same thing will happen to him down t he road.

I too, know of WOMEN who have cheated on there hubbys to be with someone else, and acquaintance of mine, was cheating on her hubby for 3 plus years, lying and making excuses to be with the other man, when all and all she was too afraid to break the marriage due to the children..to this day my friend, is still with her
original manly mistriss, and worse yet...HE IS MARRIED....so there's another whole story.....I just think any type of this behaviour is wrong and people need to be more up front with eachother and not hurt eachother so much, just out of selfishness.

May 18, 2006
4:19 pm
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revelation
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Hiya

Thanks for posting...selfishness seems to be the big thing.

Its not so much the leaving her that I am wondering about though...its the part where he's able to turn his back with very little trouble or remorse...I wonder what type of people can do this? Cold and unempathic yes...but is it more than that?

May 18, 2006
4:56 pm
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I don't know if this sheds any light on anything or not. My husband was affair and I never knew. I thought everything was just fine. He was good at keeping two lives. He didn't take away from family time. When I found out I was devasted! He told me about it and I was hit totally out of the blue! We have since been working on our relationship. The children have no idea! thought it was best to keep it from them. We have been going to counseling (christian), it has helped. During the counseling he admitted he was good at keeping two lives and guilt finally got the best of him. He says it wasn't me. He has no real reason other than getting into to deep and enjoying all the other attention. He also said when he was with her he didn't have to worry about the day to day problems that real families have,(kids, money, the regular honey do's). The brutal honesty during the counseling has been extreemly hurtful for both of us. However it has been a year and I am afraid to say that things seem to be getting somewhat normal. Some people say I am crazy for giving him a second chance but it is hard to get rid of 15 years. I have lost something in the process, not sure what it is but hopefully it will be rebuilt. The woman he was having an affair with was also married. It would be best if I didn't respond to how I really feel about the woman who do this! I would get kicked off the site! I just can't imagine someone who would do this and think it wouldn't happen to them! However I have not got to the forgiveness part of my counseling for her! I may never. I know it take two yadda yadda. It has been one year and I too would love to know the answers to the questions. Thanks for letting me vent. Evi

May 18, 2006
5:04 pm
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Rev,

I realized after my previous post that I didn't address the other issue, about how guys can just leave. Thanks for reminding me I forgot.

I can speak from a little bit of experience. I left my wife and kids two years ago. It's complicated to explain, but I never wanted to leave and would never have left had I not been jobless and prospectless. I left to eek out a new life for us somewhere else, but it didn't work out, so I ended up elsewhere, where she didn't want to follow. I found I couldn't get back for financial reasons to where they are.

So I've been separated from my wife and children these last two years. It was almost unbearable the first year or so. I was always depressed and cried often. I pined for them every day. The only thing that kept me going was the hope we'd get back together again.

I still can't bear thinking about them too much or I feel like I'm losing my mind. But it's gotten to the point where I don't think about them as often, which makes it easier to endure.

I can see some guy putting his wife and kids out of his mind, especially if he's far enough away that he doesn't run into them and if he has a new love to occupy his interests. I dated this one woman for a month last fall, and I put so much energy into that relationship that I didn't think nearly as much about my kids.

I think in general that men are able to compartmentalize better than women. We can shut out a specific thing from uor minds and it doesn't affect our other facets of life. And I don't think men form as close of bonds with their children compared to women, so those bonds are easier to break.

Just my thoughts. I'd be interested in hearing from some of the other guys. maybe glittered will chime in.

Seeker

May 18, 2006
5:21 pm
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I joined this site because i was in painful breakup from being involved with a married man. My life was devastated. Im scared to death to respond to this thread. But hearing all this is painful for me as well. I would not be able to take what Evi would say to me. However her story is exactly what his wife was saying to me about her husband. It is same story however I was not married, Im single mom. It is truly a sad situation in infidelity, everyone gets hurt. They are together but the story is the same. The history, the children. I heard that too. And was told to me that he loved me. but he loved her too. In the end all three of us got hurt, very badly and he is still with her. I don't understand why I hung in there for 3 years and lived with that pain and why she stood by him for 15 years after not just an affair with me but others before me. They are now working on it and I know she has very bitter feelings for me, no blame there. yet he almost left her for me but then walked out on me to go be back with her. I have ended it yet I am still wreaking over the experience. My self esteem went so low. I am so unsure I will ever be able to trust anyone again. Im getting better though. I feel I am a good person but fell for the wrong charmer guy. Yes even good people do this. hate me all you want. but I had to say something and not be scared of what people think. I will NEVER EVER get involved with a married man. He lied to me, he lied to her. They will stay together, and someday I will be ready for a healthy relationship. Im working on it. I feel so sad to have ever been involved in this type. I get on the site to vent as well.

May 18, 2006
5:26 pm
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There are two sides to every story. Hers, his and the truth.

May 18, 2006
5:27 pm
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Oh yeah, and there are three types of people in the word... those who can count, and those who can't.

May 18, 2006
5:40 pm
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evi,

Why would you hold more responsible the woman your husband had an affair with than your husband? How could your husband do it to another man and his family then?

Perhaps everything what your husband tells you, applies to her as well, and her situation is similar. She is responsible for her marriage and her family, just like your husband is responsible for his marriage (with you) and his family. I know it is difficult to give up on 15 years of relationship, but try to put the blame where it really belongs. It certainly does not belong to anyone outside your marriage.

May 18, 2006
6:38 pm
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About 3 yrs ago, when I was going through chemo (and maybe my husband thought I was going to not live), he sort of "accidentally" admitted to having spent a whole weekend in bed with another woman.....over 15 yrs ago.

I knew about him staying at her house. She was our friend. We'd always stayed there when we went back to his home state. She was a childhood friend of his, whom he'd always cared for and she'd been divorced for several yrs when he had to go back one time and the kids and I had to stay home. I did not think twice about it!! However, he told me, a little while after, that he had gotten kind of drunk with her, and that he'd made a pass at her, but that she'd refused him.

OK, that hurt, but I was pretty honored that (I thought) she'd kept the situation in hand. You see, my h and I both had slept with someone else once each (as far as I know) early on in our relationship. I remember that it had felt so awful afterward that it never happened again (at least for me). So for the next 15 yrs, we raise our kids together, etc., ups and downs, whatever....except that is not what happened, and ever since I learned this, I have felt betrayed in so many ways........

#1 I was lied to. And I believed in our love as though it was indestructible.

#2 Not just lied to, but there was some detail to it and the lie was maintained throughout our children's growing up yrs.

#3 He made his decision not to tell me -- had to, I guess -- for the sake of the marriage and especially the children. He knew it had been a mistake, and he was a dedicated husband and father ever after.

OK, cursory glance this could start to look kind of noble, couldn't it?

#4 My gut-level feeling has been that the whole cover-up was soooo selfish. I think his inability to grow into and deepen a healthy sexual relationship was scarred (although on the surface he does not seem to EVER suffer from guilt and rarely says he is sorry the way a person who is actually repentent does. He has always come across more as "Gee, I'm sorry you're upset with me" not "I was wrong." So....kind of a chicken-shit hide the evidence and say whatever you have to to keep your marriage together for everyone's sake, but particularly for your own little selfish butt.

At this point, I need to have forgiveness for him JUST FOR MY OWN SAKE, because I KNOW he rarely thinks about it -- you know, it was soo long ago.

I am absolutely baffled as to how a person can maintain a 3-yr affair.

It has to be some skillful mind-blocking as seeker suggests. I think I understand the thrill of the secret illicit sex. But my gut-level feeling is that somewhere along the way, my husband was

May 18, 2006
6:39 pm
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Gingerleigh, I agree with you....guess that makes the 3 of us.......

I think often the woman who will have the affair with a married man will have pretty low self esteem and not truly believe she deserves or can get a man who is unattached and is free to love her in the way she wants.

I know it is generalisation but I believe that for most women there has to be some pretty serious issues in her marriage for her to consider embarking on an extra marital relationship but it doesnt seem to be quite the same for most men. As Seeker says men seem (again a generalisation) to be much better at putting bits of their lives into different boxes and not let them intrude on each other.

And although some women can leave their children it is more the exception than the norm so they will stay in bad marriages rather than walk away cos its pretty hard to walk with a gang of kids to house and feed. Men seem to be better able to distance themselves and not think about things that might cause them pain...(like the guilt they must feel for hurting their wives or children)

Lots of generalisations and of course only my opinion...dont mean to offend any of you guys..I know that a lot of you are the exceptions that prove the rule

May 18, 2006
6:45 pm
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(sent acidentally) pampered and indulged when he should have been told "no".

Not allowing a child to take responsibility for his/her actions tells them it's OK to do what you want as long as you don't get caught. I think you have to let a child truly feel remorse for something -- they actually have to suffer a little, in order for them to learn how to be accountable to their own conscience.

I don't think a conscience is gender-oriented.

May 18, 2006
6:45 pm
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I could easily say more on this subject instead I will just say there are two side to every story. I am pained by this thread and I had been doing better. Those who choose to take sides, please do. But I will say that I know better and if my exboyfriend wife would speak to me and get the real truth she might think twice about the man she is living with who can easily seem he is totally devoted. She chooses to blame me and think he is willing to work it out that everything is back to normal since August. yet we have had contact even since August quite a number of times. He still draws me in with words. And that pains me too. Cause I know he is going home and saying he is totally committed. OK i better stop because Im getting all hurt again. I have to say that yes there are two sides. I am moving on and not willing to go back. Because I would never truly be able to trust him. And I did not deserve this at all.

May 18, 2006
6:50 pm
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Still thinking about this....afraid I'm sounding pretty rigid and all black and white...

why, sleepless, do you assume a man is better able to shut off those feelings rather than that he actually does not experience a lot of guilt because he just doesn't have much? I just don't think cheating is a gender thing.

May 18, 2006
6:59 pm
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When we judge ourselves harshly, the judgements of others, whether real or just perceived, hurt that much worse. Taj, you are still doing fine, even if this thread was upsetting for you. Upsetment will happen, and "doing fine" or "doing better" includes dealing with painful subjects in a healthier way, not just being lucky enough not to encounter the painful subjects.

Every situation is unique. You know that the love you had inside yourself was not shameful or dirty... it was loving and beautiful, despite the circumstances. Hang on to that thought, and realize that what people are expressing here is not directed at you.

If those who are casting stones had been in your situation (or mine), they might very well have gone down the exact same road. And anyone who won't admit to that possibility because in our situation they would have been stronger/better/purer is completely out of touch with reality. Before anyone can tell me that I deserve my blisters, they first need to walk a mile in my shoes.

So Taj, hang in there, you're a good sweet person who had some bad experiences but has learned from them and still has lots of love in her heart.

May 18, 2006
6:59 pm
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And I do add one more thing. Most of the physical aspect of the affair was done at home. We rarely were physical. It was all emotional on both our parts. So those who think he was coming to me for sex, he was getting it all at home. As for self esteem, all parties involved must have low self esteem, that is way I feel.

May 18, 2006
7:05 pm
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Taj,

Please forgive me if I sound like I have a "side". I guess I do understand how a good and caring person can get involved with a married one. I had a taste of feeling like I loved someone very unavailable before I met my husband. It was brief, but I remember the pain of standing on a streetcorner watching him walking away and my heart breaking. I'm so sorry that wife blames you. Don't you think it's just how she can enable him and keep make excuses for his betrayal, by portraying the other woman as the lure to his innocence??

May 18, 2006
7:06 pm
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Hi Ginger, thank you for thinking of me at a time like this. I did think that way once upon a time, that is was all so wonderful. Right now, I want nothing more to get past it. Im still locked in somehow. But yet I am making such progress with getting my esteem back up. It is hard sometimes. I felt like on top of the world when I was with this guy. I know he felt the same way. But somehow that feeling is no longer there because of the hurt and pain. I want to have a healthier relationship. I want a man who I can trust and be loving to me. I want to feel on top of the world again but for me first. If you take care of yourself first then you are strong. Im still weak at times. But I am getting there. I do have big heart, just a little broken and Im glad to be reminded from time to time of that pain because it makes me see not to go back or to have that hope with my old love. Though thoughts are painful at time, at least I don't live in denial, and for that I am truly grateful.

May 18, 2006
7:18 pm
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Personally I think a disconnectivity occured for him and that once a catalyst occured he decided that that was it. In my opinion men rarely leave a relationship to be on their own. I think that many of us lack the personal stregth to do that.

In his case he met a woman who could give him something new or something that he had and missed and when the opportunity presented itself he went for it. Men are fully prepared to leave something and many of us think that we CAN if we need to can go back.

Women in my opinion rarely pick up and leave as they feel their responsibility is to the kids

Who really knows how long Paul was unhappy and what the root cause of this unhappiness was. Maybe she wasn't the same woman who he fell in love with (physically and emotionally) and he wanted that passion and excitement back.

One comment that I do find interesting and I do want to make is that it is rarely the "other woman's" fault though I recognize that it sometimes is. Usually though in my opinion and experience with girls' stoties the man pretends he isn't married or suggests that the marriage is almost over and "the other woman" is made to feel safe.

Often when she realizes that there is indeed a wife or girlfriend or that the relationship is stronger than he made it appear it is too late for her to just walk away, as the affair is strong and she has a big emotional (sometimes love) investment going on. It is simply too hard to all of a sudden extricate herself. So she stays and waits it out hoping that ultimately she will get the guy.

I think Paul is a turd for abandoning his children and I hope that he has at least enough balls to pay financial support.

Regards. Notsure

May 18, 2006
7:20 pm
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sleepless in uk
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Well I did say it was a generalisation and it was only in my opinion which I guess has been formed by my own experiences.

But I said that because I think that was how my father who was a serial adulterer (as well as a lot of other things) managed to face himself in the shaving mirror each morning after he had left us. For many years he didnt see us at all and years later, just before he died I asked him about it. I said 'I could understand that you wanted not to be married any more but I never understood how you could not want to be our Dad any more. Didnt you miss us or care about how we were?'

He told me that he couldnt see us because it hurt him too much. He couldnt bear to see how much he had hurt us and our mum. I was pretty angry, I thought 'how come this is all about the effect it had on him?'

And strangely enough when my husband had an affair (although he stayed...boy was I stupid letting him) he told me that he dealt with the guilt he felt by putting the bits of his life into seperate boxes and told himself he wasnt hurting me or our children if he kept everything seperate......

But the women I have known who have had affairs or considered them or been tempted have all for the most part had serious marriage problems and seem to become very emotionally involved first. I guess I wasnt saying men dont have affairs for those reasons too, of course some men will have unhappy marriages. And will meet people and become emotionally involved with them and fall in love etc etc.

But my dad admitted that he hadnt really been unhappy...just wanted more of something.

And that was what my husband said too more or less.

hey maybe Im kidding myself I dont know. I have been pretty good at that

I really didnt mean to offend, just explain how it seemed to me

May 18, 2006
7:22 pm
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I want this relationship to be healthier, too, Taj. The hardest, hardest thing for me is realizing how totally trusting I was, and I can never have that level again. Bubble broken. Poor me.

"Loving What Is" (forgot the author) was a good insight into myself. I see so many people just miserable because of feeling critical or being criticised. I am trying to be aware of it as much as I can.

I guess a certain amount of critism is what outlines our value systems, but....

Can I ask you Taj, to go further with what you said about wanting to get beyond this but you are still locked in somehow? Do you know what that is about?

May 18, 2006
7:26 pm
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This is such an insightful discussion. I'm so sorry that I have to leave for a while. Later.

May 18, 2006
7:29 pm
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sleepless in uk
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Hey I wasnt in any way trying to suggest that anyone was a bad person....I am really struggling at the moment not to have a physical relationship with a man I care very deeply for and am so tempted to run to him it is an ache that doesnt go away....so who the f*** am I to sit in judgement

But I am trying not to do it for my sake not for my husband's sake because I dont want my decisions about my marriage to be clouded by this

Taj I hope you know I wasnt casting stones at anyone...not for a single second

May 18, 2006
8:01 pm
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No I am not feeling judged at all or stones being cast, just pained for the moment to be reminded, that is all. I spoke because I want to tell of my pain too. Every relationship is different. I truly believe that relationship can work out if trust is lost. Those of you that are married out there and suffer from this. Be encouraged because many to get past it and many do make it work. Because every relationship is different. Im some how locked in because I still think of him so much. I wish it would go away but never does. just about everyone in life goes through a difficult time in their lifetime and this happens to be mine in life. I know that I am not being casted stones personally so Im ok with that. I just read this and I feel everyone's pain that has gone through this experience, not just from one point of view. I am just presenting my experience and my pain. I see it as painful from all sides of the fence no matter who is involved. Yes I did get low self esteem from all this. It was difficult and painful to always have to walk away. I did so many many times. And most of the time I didn't want to break up and it was alway me to break up, not him. I hope many of you out there do earn the trust no matter what side you are on. without trust a relationship is doomed. I gotta trust myself first. Thanks for everyone's input.It is hard to hear but also needed.

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