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A New Chapter? Or end of story?
August 26, 2005
11:32 am
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D dog
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Okay.

So H. was out in the pool last evening, I was hanging out with my neighbor and her son at my place, and ignored him, even while retrieving my mail, etc.

A while later my phone rings, call I.D. says H, I didn't answer. No voicemail.

Then a half hour later, phone rings again, it's H, (sigh), I answered. He's like, "Just wanted to say 'hey'", so I'm like, "Hey", and then just sat there. Silence.

Then I go, "I really don't know what else to say".

Silence.

Then he's like, "Well...have a good night", and I'm like, "Oh, I will!" Then he goes, quietly, "Unless you want to hang out..."

And I heave a huge sigh, and go, "Ya know what..." and he's immediately like, "Never mind, just have a good night", and we hang up.

My neighbor is ecstatic - "Way to go girl," etc.

So an hour later, a knock on my door, it's H. He's like, "Would you like to go to Chez Nous (local jazz club) for a cocktail?" Huge awkward silence, I look at my neighbor, she looks at me, H looks at both of us, and I'm like, "Hey, come in and have a drink".

So we have a couple drinks, but not to excess for once. Everytime H.'s back was turned, she's whispering, "Be careful!", and I'm whispering back, "No doubt!" Then she has to go home to get her son's homework rolling, and H. is like, "Do you still want to go out?" and I'm like, "Sure, why not?"

So we go a local dive across the street, and instead of setting up camp by the pool tables, he wants to sit in a booth and talk. (?????)

He mentions that he likes my outfit (it was stuff he bought me), and I hear myself saying, "Oh, your gulit gifts that you bought becasue you feel like s**t about yourself and need to purchase for self-validation?"

His jaw drops, and it actually sinks in. He's like..."Wow."

I then asked him why he's been depressed, he wanted "space", he wanted to be with Sandy, so what's the problem?

So he tells me how much he misses me, that he has been seeing Sandy, swears he hasn't had sex with her, that he loves her but isn't "in love" with her, things aren't the same with her, all he can think about is me, when he looks at her, it just isn't me, and he has realized I'm the one he wants, etc. (Bet this all sounds familiar to a lot of you out there, huh?)

Well, but I would have been elated in the past, but then I heard myself saying: "I'm only going to say this once. Unless you can commit to me 100 percent, and move in together, and maybe go to a therapist for your other issues, I am not interested. I deserve to have 100 percent from whoever I am with, and if you can't give that to me, believe me, there is someone out there who will. I cannot continue to be hurt, I am sick of this s**t, so figure it out or take a walk. Is that clear?"

Oh, it was. Crystal. Then another nighbor showed up at the bar, he doesn't drink, just cam by to borrow some cash and show us his new car stero. He's only 18 (Derek), so we hustled him out of there, checked out the stereo (quite awesome, indeed), and then go to Chez Nous.

We're sitting at the bar, and have a conversation with a cool guy who eventually reveals that his girlfriend has just left him for her ex, and I burst out laughing, and H feels like an idiot.

Then we slow-danced (to "Easy Like Sunday Morning" - LOL!)

We went back to my place, talked a bit more, and at one point he says, "Well, Sandy will always be part of my life," and I'm like, "Why?" He thinks about this and then he goes, "Yeah. Why?" And I say, "You do not need her or anyone else to validate you. Get over it. Get into therapy. Trust me, it helps."

Oh, the pearls of wisdom were flying!

Anyway, there's more, but that's the gist of it, gotta get ready for work...

Catch up with you all later...

D.

We're sitting at the bar, and have a conversation with a cool guy who eventually reveals that his girlfriend has just left him for her ex, and I burst out laughing, and H feels like an idiot.

August 26, 2005
11:41 am
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SUSIE BABY
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GO GIRL,good for you for standing up! don't settle,if he want's sandy,let her have his bagage!!!!

August 26, 2005
11:54 am
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readyforachange
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Whoa, D....I was on the edge of my seat for this entire story thinking you were going to end up going back to H., or sleeping with him. Sorry I didn't have more faith in you! While I do want to remind you you broke No Contact BIG TIME, and that you shouldn't have gone with him because it justs sends him the message that he can waltz back and you'll fall for his crap....I do think you handled it pretty darn well! Maybe some things were said that needed to be said...I sure hope you see that he CAN'T commit to you 100%, and that you are best to move on. I sure hope you can see that. I'm pulling for you. Hang in there. BTW...you really need to move, you are just too close to him! (sorry if I sound like I'm preaching...I'm just so damn mad at my ex right now, I'm taking it out on anyone in my path...)

August 26, 2005
12:55 pm
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SexySadie
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Popping open the bottle of champagne...damn woman!! What a class act...a toast to you...standing ovation!! Voila!!! Just be careful...don't let your guard down quite yet honey. Stick to your guns...you set up some very good boundaries...accept nothing less NOW!!! If you give in just a bit he'll take you all the way. He has to earn your respect.

August 26, 2005
1:13 pm
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D dog
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Yeah. I even said that to him last night. He was like, "I want to be with you," and I replied, "EARN IT!"

He also said that he was going to call Sandy today and tell her that he can't be with her and that he loves me. Yeah, RIGHT! Oh, and his brother is buying a new house and is going to rent out his old one for $1,000 a month, he wants to move in there with me. Beautiful home, 3-bedroom, huge kitchen, 2 bathrooms, pool, nicely landscaped (we don't have actual "lawns" here in Phoenix, just really nice gravel).

Anyway, I was like, "Oh great, we'll move in together and 3 months down the road, you'll 'need space' again, or hook up with Sandy, and I'll be screwed! How's that gonna work?"

And he went on and on about how perfect we are for each other, he wants to live me with, blah blah blah.

I want to believe him, but I just don't.

August 26, 2005
1:18 pm
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gingerleigh
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Stay strong. If I could offer one piece of advice, it would be to quit seeing him. He will pester and pester and wear you down eventually. Cut him off, let him change on his own if he actually has the balls to do it. And you be good to yourself.

August 26, 2005
1:27 pm
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kathygy
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D dog,

Based on his history with you I just would find it very hard to trust him. I wouldn't move in with him. Don't make it so easy for him to see you. It doesn't sound like he is taking what you say seriously because you said no contact to him and then he asks you out. You go out with him. Even though you say things to set boundaries you need to back them up with action. What did he say when you said you want 100% committment? Its easy now for him to say all these great sounding things because it is safe. What happens if he has you back completely? It may be a very different story. I would ask him how do I know he has changed if indeed he has. Be very careful. I think you need to pull back more and not go out with him until and if he can prove himself. You told him he has to earn it. Now you need to live up to what you say and not give in so easily to him.

love,
kathy

August 26, 2005
1:33 pm
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D dog
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Good advice, all, as usual. I'm going to go out right after work and not take any calls (if he calls). That way he can't track me down.

Dammit, why do I feel like I'm being mean to him now???

Oh, he's good, this one!!

LOL!

August 26, 2005
1:42 pm
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Shaney
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D - this is what I'm observing, and please don't take this in a bad way - I'll try to be gentle.

He's willing at this point to make all kinds of promises because he's not in the drivers seat. He's down, he's searching, he feels bad, and now will do or say anything he can to feel good again. This isn't to say that he won't change or doesn't eventually want you in his life, but don't you think you owe it to yourself to actually see and experience his changes before you're stuck in a living situation with him?

Please don't leap into what appears to be an ideal situation, just because it FEELS good right now (the rad house with the pool - big temptation...don't fall for it just yet). Stick to your guns - you really made some great points with him - so allow him to prove his love for you and get into therapy. Lately his emotions have been swinging all over the damn place - so demanding some consistant behavior on his part for a prolonged period of time isn't a lot for you to ask for and expect at this point.

D - I'm not ragging on you - I really want the best for you. 🙂 And maybe, H will be just that with some work.
Let yourself come down from this rollercoaster, get some perspective on the situation, and then make some plans. But take it slow - a bf that needs space every other week may not be the best housemate for you just yet.

Lots of hugs and repect from me by the way. You handled yourself and I'm proud of you. Make yourself proud.

🙂 🙂 ((D)) (: (: double whammy happyface hug with a chardonnay chaser

August 26, 2005
1:45 pm
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Anonymous
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Oh D, my stomach churned as I read that - I was proud that you told him what you want and need - but have really come to believe he isn't capable of giving it to you and EVEN IF he agrees to, you are only setting yourself up for "another chapter".

I see my relationship with my ex's in your story and know the roller coaster ride this has the potential of continuing to be.

As kathy said, you said no contact, then let him squirm his way back again - and I assume this has happened before too - maybe not "no contact" but in setting boundaries or expectations.

You won't ever know if he is telling the truth or not, on any level, and only have a choice of "trust him or don't" and moving forward. There is simply no way to prove any of it. The risk in moving forward alone is that you will heal and find a GOOD guy, the rik in moving forward with him is that he MIGHT turn into the man you need or he MIGHT not and you will back to square one again, after another emotional breakup. That is a HUGE RISK - and his track record does not give me a good gut feeling on his ability to produce the desired results.

***IF*** you choose to move forward - DO NOT move in with him - you already set that boundary - STICK TO IT - cuz in the end, it is an INCREDIBLE leap of faith and an INCREDIBLE risk. In fact, I wouldn't even take him back into your home - make him get his own place, and show he can stand on his own two feet like an adult, and show you he WILL follow thru with therapy, and show you he WILL treat you right, and show you he CAN act like a responsible adult in every way before letting him live with you.

If I had a choice, I would do that with my current BF - but I don't - we have a lease together, and we had to go thru an application process and appeals when we were rejected because of his credit - if he moves out, they will not let him back in later on - and there is no other housing opportunities in my town to move to - and I will NOT move out of here because of the school situation with my daughter. But let me tell you, this recovery process is DAMN hard when you are sleeping with the man and still entangled in the issues and learning to "detach" when your bills are due and he has to pay them and has not enough income is a PURE test of my abilities. He is still uncomfortable with the boundaries I am setting and the communication I am sharing with him - and having to go home to him after a particulary hard day of communication or such, is hard.

Stand your ground and don't back down - we wouldn't be saying this if we weren't worried - and you deserve so much more and so much better.

August 26, 2005
3:32 pm
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Shaney
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Hey D - I think you may need to post again before you go out tonight. I sense that potential drunk dialing may occur and we need to talk you out of it before it happens. 🙂 Ha! A sort of pre-game pep talk if you know what I mean.

August 26, 2005
4:03 pm
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D dog
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Shaney - Good call! I may just go home, work has been busy today and I don't really feel like bar-hopping. Anyway, I can predict what will probably happen 2nite - H will go to Sandy's and try to have a "talk" with her, she'll drag him back in, and nothing changes.

I don't have much faith in him at this point.

August 26, 2005
4:09 pm
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Anonymous
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Did you ever figure out who Icepick is?

August 26, 2005
4:16 pm
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D dog
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No, but I strongly suspect my neighbor, even though she denies it. Mainly because the emails seem to arrive in pairs, one from her address, one from Icepick, even once at like 3 in the morning, so what are the odds???

And she has an axe to grind with H, but that's a whole new thread for another day.

That said, it's not really like her...she's a very direct person, and we've talked endlessly about H in the past. So I'm not sure, and I've been like, "Fess up! You're Ice!" and she keeps saying no way, so who knows?

August 26, 2005
4:40 pm
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Anonymous
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So, just curious, if your neighbor IS Icepick, was the information she gave you in the email true and accurate? Or just hearsay? I mean, I know he never defended some of the stuff he read in the email that you forwarded to him, so that makes me think, "Guilty as charged". Just a thought...

August 26, 2005
4:59 pm
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D dog
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I thought that, too. The only thing he's denied is having sex with Sandy. Neighbor would not know for sure if that is true or not, but I do know he has overnighted at her house for at least two weekends recently, and maybe shared her bed, so neighbor would obviously make that assumption.

I brought that up to him last night, and he told me he didn't have sex with her because he "just couldn't" and "kept thinking about me".

H was like, "Who is this Icepick?" and I was like, "Obviously someone who knows all three of us," and he was like, "Well, I didn't have sex with Sandy!" - but I am sure they crashed out together and did the snuggling bit at the very least.

H confirmed last night that Sandy has indeed broken up with her boyfriend, that's why she has opened the door to him and explains him suddenly shutting me out, taking her to the Scorpions concert, etc. And now that he's spent so much time with her (last weekend as well), maybe he is realizing that he'd rather be with me. He said his feelings for her are different now, and it "just isn't there" for him with her.

Do I believe him about the sex thing? In a weird way, yeah...it was just the way he said it last night...

August 26, 2005
5:05 pm
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Shaney
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Well D - you do what you have to do with this deal. As indviduals, we all know when we've had enough and not one of us leaves until we reach that point. That's a fact. That's, of course, unless they leave us first - which is never a good thing - us codeps like to have the last word and do the leaving if it comes to that! Regardless, good luck.

Hopefully your weekend is relaxing and uneventful. Just in case you go into a post chardonnay frenzie, I'll be checking back periodically (between my own glasses of chardonnay, of course).
My bf is on duty this weekend so I have nothing but relaxation planned - I'll be fighting the heat here in L.A. but loving the alone time. Be strong and take care.

August 26, 2005
5:18 pm
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Shaney
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You never know who's telling the truth when it comes to sex - there are so many reasons why people hide it, brag about it, lie about it... whatever. It's hard to know who to trust or believe. Sometimes your gut is all you have The one thing that I do know is that Icefreak needs to mind her/his own business and not plant sketchy info into your head. Reality, and your own feelings and perceptions are enough to deal with, without having wierd, outside influences.

August 26, 2005
5:26 pm
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D dog
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LOL! Last night I switched to Bacardi Limon, nice with club soda! Plus I tend to have only 2 or 3, instead of attacking box-o-wine with such gusto.

I don't plan to really do anything right now. I know H is a long long way from being worthy of me. Gonna leave it at that, and keep focusing on self-empowerment and all that jazz.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be online!!

August 26, 2005
6:30 pm
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D dog
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Shaney -

P.S. Move to Phoenix! Be my new roommate!

LOL!

August 26, 2005
6:47 pm
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Shaney
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Oh! That's the best compliment I've gotten alll month! If I lived in Pheonix, I'd yank you to the other end of town so fast, your drink would fall out of your hand. We'd have to move away from Icecreep. (Ha! I'm peeing my pants right now). If it wasn't for the fact that I got engaged in Feb. I probably wouldn't be opposed to moving out of L.A.! It's all about timing isn't it? At least we have this site. Are we becoming codep on eachother?

August 26, 2005
7:06 pm
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SexySadie
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Regarding IcePick...what mail reader program do you use? If you use Outlook you can look at the headers and it should tell you a great deal of information and you can compare her email address to IcePicks. Just for grins compare to your guys email addy...you never know. Stranger things have been known to happen!!

And for the record...ya'll need to move to Dallas...even if I am still an LA girl at heart!!

August 27, 2005
12:20 am
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Shaney
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Hi SS - I'm obsessed with knowing the identity of Icekook too. I admit it. Who does such a thing? I have to stick to my original theory that DDog sleepwalks in the middle of the night, stops at the window to howl at the moon, then writes herSELF those wierd Icefreak emails. It happens, and I think this is one of those 20/20 episodes in the making.

Just kidding D!!! You know you're my favorite sleepwalker!

Dallas sounds like a plan SS. My friend Jeff and his family just moved there last month. He loves it.

August 27, 2005
12:40 am
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D dog
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Shaney -

ROFL! What is UP with your sense of humor? Damn, you're funny!

I'm on beer #5, H. "stopped by" earlier, think he was worried becasue I let my neighbor borrow my car (to go get coke! She invited me to join her, but I politely declined - points for me, there!) and he was like, "Oh you ARE home." I was like, "Um...yeah. Staying in tonight."

He was helping other neighbors get a grill up to their apartment, they are having a house built, and he bought the grill from another friend to give to them. Sad codep that he is! LOL!

Anyway, I just peeped out my window, and he's puttering around in his apartment...not sure if he's going to come back over, but for once, I so don't care. I mean, I don't feel angry OR happy, just mellow and level, chillin' out with some cool tunes...wish I had some buds to partake in, but I haven't done that for so long, I wouldn't even know who to call.

I don't even really like beer, makes me more sleepy than anything, but tonight it's just the thing, it's nice to not be a drunken, tweaked out mess for once! My neighbor is totally obscuring herself with zee coca, I feel bad for her, she's a single mom and has been thru hell, she does this everytime she can get a babysitter. I do the same thing with alcohol, but maybe as I keep learning, I will "graduate" to a better level.

Good to know you're out there, thanks for the laugh, that was classic!

Ya know what - when there's a full moon, I always howl at it. I mean really, out loud, like "Oup Oup ooooooo!"

Eeerie.

August 27, 2005
1:02 am
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Shaney
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Hey D - just got home from drinks with some girls from work. An old friend at work (our relationship is sort of on the blink) is finally getting married after 20 years with the same guy. The reason why we're not great friends anymore is a psychological study in itself, and my hands will fall off if I even attempt to write it all down.... but hey. It went okay. I REALLY had to dig deep for that love that is referred to in the bible, to get me through tonight, but it turned out fine. This particular friend is extremely histrionic... all in all too much for me to handle - I have my own issues.

The coke thing. Yeah, we haven't had this discussion yet, have we. My bf and I have a history of partying to the wee hours... we've done quite a bit of it. That's what we did when we met... it was fun, but it has tapered off to almost nothing.I've quit completely, I'm working on getting him to quit. He doesn't do it that much, but more than our life together can handle. I want it to stop before we are married - I want a clean life. Our friends are NUTS and stop by at all hours... well they never leave. After a few drinks, there I am again. It's been probably two months since I've done a thing... I don't even drink as much as I used to. I'm a big fan of wine - I grew up in wine country for Gods sake - it's in my blood.... but I've even cut back there too.

---Just for the record, I'm drunk right now and rambling on and on. Can I just take over your thread... okay thanks.------

Anyway, who the hell cares. I think what I was getting at, is... I RELATE Super D Dog with the Kung Foo Grip!

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