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a littlegirls voice
September 19, 2003
11:17 am
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Anonymous
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Here i am , a big girl, with littlgirl thots and feelings..things i cannot express without her help. things she cannot express without my help.

You see, my little girl has been hiding a long time, and she’s glad to have the opportunity to be seen, but especially, to be heard. here in the safety of this forum.

She is only just beginning to trust me enough to tell me things. She doesn’t always use words when she tells, tho. Sometimes I think things and I don’t know why. Or I have scary dreams, or a sound frightens me and I start to feel all funny inside. Then I realize it’s her, the little girl, talking to me.

Little girl doesn’t like to talk becuz she’s afraid that what she thinks and feels is stupid. So I promised her that I would be her voice here.....

picture her .. posing for a picture ..taken by a man who is often confusing to her. shes trying to be a good girl and smile, but she is frightened and her tummy feels funny and she doesn’t feel much like smilin’. She doesn’t smile very often either. Her daddy tells her not to laugh. That means she’s too happy. Daddy works hard and doesn’t have any fun at all, so why should she? Sometimes he hurts her feelings when he tells her she’s stupid, or fat, or lazy and she gets angry. But she pretends that it’s okay that he said those things becuz only daddy is allowed to be angry. And when she is sad, she goes to her safe place and cries. She doesn’t want anyone to see or hear her crying. She thinks she’s being a bad girl when she cries becuz daddy says she’s too sensitive.

Little girl only cries late at night when it’s dark out and everyone else is sleeping. That’s when she comes out of her safe place and is hit with all things she couldn’t feel when she was inside the dark, closet-like box. She stays on guard just in case she has to go back in. She’s always listening for something. Anything that tells her she should retreat. And when she hears a noise, her heart starts racing and she scurries back inside like a frightened little mouse. Except she’s even too frightened to squeak.

Recently she told me there is an ocean inside her and when she gets sad the ocean breaks. I will let her explain. “There’s an ocean of tears flowing thru me all the time. Sometimes the waves are soft and gentle and I feel my insides stirring as the ripples swirl around my tummy. And sometimes they are angry, and hit hard and heavy, and I feel all bruised inside. Sometimes, they hit so hard it bursts right out my eyes. Flowing, streaming down my face. Salty tears - sting! And when its over, and the waves retreat once more, I sit alone and quiet, wishing mommy would hug her little girl.

But mommy -

never

comes.”

September 19, 2003
11:23 am
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mj
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This mommy will.....

This mommy will comfort and protect you and keep you safe. She will not let anyone abuse you while she is near.

I too have a little girl inside of me. I have to mommy her as well. Sometimes, we don't get what we need from others...so we have to learn to give ourselves what we need. Hugs firefly

September 19, 2003
11:36 am
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unhappy camper
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She is a sweetie. I'm glad she is getting braver. Baby steps. I know you are making her most welcome.

She wants to be carefree and play.

Her time has finally come.

🙂

September 19, 2003
11:44 am
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tooscared
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Big hugs (((Firefly))) You are a special and unique person who is full of love, kindness, gentleness, caring, and worth.

I am glad that you feel safe enough to post on this forum. You are accepted, loved, and encouraged on here and that is what we all need in this life.
Love, TS

September 19, 2003
11:57 am
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Ladeska
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And such a BIG girl to finally want to talk and feel okay about it!! Yep...she and I have our little talks under the big old tree, huh? Such a cute timid little thing. But these days - she's actually getting a wee bit spunky!! She crawls up in my lap now and then and talks up a blue streak!! Smiles and Hugs!

September 19, 2003
1:32 pm
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you guys are sweet

littlegirl kisses ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

September 19, 2003
2:51 pm
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Anam Cara
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Firefly

I would call it little girl -big girl talking.

I think you may have stumbled onto something wonderful here.

We all have a little person inside - I am an old guy and feel ashamed to still be hiding my fears away,

You might say " What he never stops talking!" but my little guy has yet to emerge.

Thank you Firefly I think you have given me some courage!

LOL.
Mini Me

November 14, 2003
5:31 pm
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sel0309
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This is an old thread, but it has hit hard for me. I went to counseling this week and my counselor got me to admit that I needed a life. I volunteer, and work hard. I do lots of stuff for my daughter. What fun things do I do for myself nothing. I feel like my needs are not being met,heck I don't even know what my needs are. I want to get into a relationship, but make so many excuses and walls that men stay away. Why? Because I am scared. Because I don't think anyone will evel love or want me around. Why can't I do this? I see coworkers, friends going out, doing things. Instead I go home or to the gym. My safe cocoon. Is it a good life? Probably boring for most people, but its safe for me. I get affection and attention from my daughter and dogs. I spend alot of my time being serious and not letting out that little girl to play. The truth is she peeks in every now and then to see if its safe to come out. She is scared, and cries alot. She doesn't feel safe and hasn't felt like she has anyone to take care of her. I try to coax her out, let her play, but she holds back. I don't blame her, she was betrayed by the most important people in her life. She was told she is a disappointment and that she is skinny and dumb. I wish I knew what to do to come out and trust again.

November 14, 2003
5:53 pm
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unhappy camper
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Skinny. That was me as a child too. I have one horrific day in memory where my mom made me stand outside our apartment building when I was about 12 yrs old in a bathing suit. I was just a skelton. Skin and bones. She forced me to have the picture taken, and of course outside for all passersby to see. I died. She has that picture in her album and I want to shove it down her throat. I hope she was happy. Power trip? She didn't care how embarassed I was. That was around the time my dad grabbed at me. Since then, there has been bad blood and I don't even see them any more.
Boy was I ever a sensitive kid though. You could make me cry at the drop of a hat. I hated myself.

But I don't let that stop me from trying to be happy. I have had lots of rotten luck with men which I guess are just my bad choices. Taking the first one that was nice to me. Then giving them full power over me.

Today I am learning to have self-esteem. I am trying to figure out what I want from the rest of my life.

I hope your counselor will talk with the little girl, and earn her trust. I hope she will accept that past for what it was, and not take any blame. I hope she will get stronger. I hope she will be creative and energetic. I hope she will tell you what she enjoys doing just for her. I hope she can relax and feel secure and think about joyful things to do. What does she want to be when she grows up? A dancer, or nurse, or an artist, or a designer, or a computer expert, or a doll clothes maker, or a fairy princess....????

Have some milk and cookies with her tonight, your inner child, and your daughter. Let them get to know each other. Who can be the silliest? Who can draw better? Which kind of candy do you both like?

I like cotton candy best.

November 14, 2003
6:10 pm
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gingerleigh
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I would have rather been a skinny kid than the chubster I was... all the skinny kids at school were mercilessly cruel to the fat ones.

November 14, 2003
6:27 pm
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artist 2
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this thread reminds me of things my mother did to me. she came between me and boyfriends telling me to break up with them. she became their confidant and they told her I ruin things for them. she even told me she was jealous of me.

thanks for letting me vent.

November 14, 2003
6:55 pm
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unhappy camper
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Ginger...when I say skinny...I mean skinny. Not regular sized. Drastically underweight. It was equally bad for both, fat and skinny. It was the regular ones who felt they had to torment us.

Me, representing the skinny girls everywhere, says I could never hurt anyone or call them names or criticize them, because I just had to look at myself. It would be the pot calling the kettle black. Who was I to ridicule, when I looked awful? If a skinny girl (actually skinny, not just regular) attacked you...I don't understand.

What did you do then? Did you fight back or sulk or cry? I see you as fiesty. LOL I was called toothpick, turn sideways and stick out your tongue and you'll look like a zipper, etc. Those still hurt today...the memories. As do yours.

November 14, 2003
11:01 pm
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It has taken me a LONG time to realize that although I come from a large family, and my parents "stayed together" actually they do seem to care for each other - there was cruelty and abuse mentally and emotionally. Of course they are no where near how horrible their parents were to them, and in some ways they were very good parents, but there was still some things that were very wrong.

Things that my Mom said to me growing up, I thought all Mom's said stuff like that, until I was much older. You won't believe this, but when I married my first husband I was astounded at the way they (he and his first wife) treated their children. They were firm, don't get me wrong, but they heaped praise upon praise on them. To see these beautiful children now, makes me glow because they are self assured and happy and can deal with things in such a healthy way. After being married to him for a year, and finally telling him all that I did, it was at his encouragement that I go to counseling. My second husband is the same way (my first passed away), and it still shocks me from time to time that life with him is "nice" it is not a drama over every little thing. Actually, nothing much with him is a drama, just something that needs to be worked out or fixed.

The one thing that I remember growing up. My entire family - my Mom is 6'1, my Dad is 6'4. My brothers range from 6'4 to 6'10, and my sister is 6'0. The boys are all good sized, but extremely athletic, so they are not over weight. My sister is a rail, as is my Mother. They both actually have to eat to keep weight on. Well... I don't have that problem. I am 5'6 1/2, and even when I was playing on a soccer league, two swim teams and two volley ball teams, I am still a size 14, and that is with not much "fat" on me. I even went on a crazy diet when I was in high school to which my Mom not only encouraged me, but told me for the first time in my life I finally looked good. I went into the Dr. for my school exam to play sports, and the Dr. told me "do NOT EVER drop below 165 lbs., your body cannot handle it." I am extremely top heavy, always have been. Even now, at 230 lbs., when I tell people that they think I'm lying because by the grace of God, I'm able to carry the weight. I have gained alot of weight because of the medications they have me on due to cancer treatments. Yet, my husband (one of those weirdo's who excercises religously - and has a nice body... if I say so myself;)..) has NEVER said one word about my weight gain. Not one single word.

But, back to my point. I was about eleven or so and I had a slumber party as it was my birthday. Well, my Dad had gone out and got donuts for all of us girls. So, we wake up and are eating these donuts. I had two, and then the girls that were there said "Oh, you need to have that one with the sprinkles for your birthday!" So I did... making it three donuts that I ate.

After they all left, my Mom yelled at me. She said "you are so fat and disgusting, I should go buy five dozen doughnuts and stuff them down your throat until you throw them back up so you will not be fat and gross like my Mother was." When I got older I saw a picture of my Nana, and I AM built just like her. Sturdy. But, to hear my Mom tell it, she was over 500 lbs. To this day, when I look in the mirror, that is what I see.

When I was 19, I met a man (my 2nd boyfriend), and we were talking one night. He told me "you have the most beautiful bright green eye's." I said, thanks, at least I have one good aspect on my face. He told me I was crazy, and proceeded to compliment me on my appearance. Am I really gorgeous? I don't know, not bad I guess... but still.

I will also be honest, even though I have been married to my husband for over 13 years, there are times when he tells me I'm beautiful and there is that little voice inside of me that says "he is only saying that because we are married."

Listen to your little child. She is speaking up for a reason.

Love,

Z.

November 14, 2003
11:16 pm
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unhappy camper
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Jeez...when I think about how MY MOM was raised ... I am embarassed to think she was mean in comparison to those who raised her. She was orphaned as a baby and her and her sister and brother were farmed out to orphanages and foster parents. Her mom died and her dad could not take care of her. She was raised by horrifically cruel fanatic people of different nationalities. Her story is a real tragedy. So I hang my head in shame that I think her not showing feelings for me and not considering my feelings is the worst. What else did she know? She wasn't raised with love. She was a slave and grossly mistreated. I can tell you so many bad stories. So she was dysfunctional, but not her fault. My dad was one of 11 kids. Poor and brutal life.

But I still don't like them. But maybe life was so much easier for me it's easier to be a nicer person. They didn't have the opportunity to be nice, they were suffering greatly.

Thanks for reminding me where I came from, and why there were unfeeling. I can't blame them for it all, but their drinking and fighting, although normal for a lot of families then, was ugly to me.

I could not have handled their childhoods though. They were strong.
They deserve credit.

November 15, 2003
12:21 am
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chloeysmomma
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this sounds like my whole life wrapped up in a nut shell i cant trust men either i was betrayed many of times by men in general i long for my inner child i never got to live a real childhood i grew up to fast only to resent alot of people and i cant trust anyoen not even my hubby and iam scared too my parents had no morals or respect for others when i was growing up so i promised myself to never be like my parents i would be better than them ,iam sitting back here holding the tears knwoing that iam in good company and that people do care about me and have similar experinces and i dont feel alone i dont know how to have a life outside my marriage and to trust i cant it s too hard

November 15, 2003
12:25 am
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Zinnie
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Hi Hoops,

Yes, it does seem to come from other places doesn't it. Although so many of us go to counseling to figure ourselves out, we need to keep in mind that for most of us when our parents were coming up, there was not really "counseling" per say; you were labled as "crazy."

My Dad came from one of 14 kids. Get this one. His Father got "so sick of that woman having all of those kids" so he moved on up the block with some other lady and had another six kids, then moved back home. What the hell? None of the kids went to school, and were literally working by the time they were six or seven years old. When I was home while my Dad was sick, I read this book we put together for him when he turned 65. His younger sister wrote "You were the best older brother in the world, you worked five paper routes, and collected junk to fix up and sell so you could give us kids a gift at Christmas." Made me see my Dad in a whole new light. My Grandfather would not allow my Grandmother to speak at all. Questions had to be directed to him, he would answer even if it was something about her. I think when he died, she finally felt some freedom. They had an arranged marriage, I believe he was close to 30 when they married, and she was only 13 or 14. He was also abusive to her, and keep in mind he was 6'10, and she was only about 5 feet tall. He also beat his children with rubber hoses.

My Mom - well, she came from a family of 26 kids. Her Mother walked out on all of them when the youngest was I believe three or so, which is partially why my Mom has her hatred of her Mother. There were only three girls, and my Grandfather was a long haul truck driver, so the girls were passed from relative to relative. When the girls became of a certain age, several male relatives began molesting them. My Mom ran away at 14, met my Dad who was 20 and they married.

They were better parents than their parents were. We had a lot of good times growing up. But, my weight for my Mother was always an issue and she was very cruel when it came to that. For some reason I seem to think it was either when my Dad was not around, or he did not say anything, because I don't remember him saying anything about it.

Although both of my parents are "disappointed" in the fact that I go to counseling, and moved away from my family. They feel it is a direct reflection on them.

They have also expressed concerns about my marrying someone so much older. But, my Mom was really nasty about it at first.

When I married the first time, my Mom had a little too much to drink one night and said "the only reason he married you is because you are young, and (God help me, she really said this) probably still tight as a straw like men like it." I was shocked, I did not know what to say. Actually, I did not say anything come to think of it. She is far more accepting of my husband now and has never said anything so crass, but sometimes I wonder.

In any case, they had it rough. I'm glad that our society has changed and counseling is now acceptable so perhaps we will not repeat the same patterns our parents did with us.

I'm sorry, this seems to have really opened up some wounds for me.

Z.

November 15, 2003
12:28 am
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Zinnie
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((((((((((((((chloeysmomma))))))))))))))

Love,

Zinnie

November 15, 2003
8:26 am
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unhappy camper
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This thread is an eye opener. We blame our parents. But their life was far worse then we ever could imagine or tolerate. No wonder they were "twisted" and angtry and did not have the capacity for love and patience and support as they were struggling for their survival when growing up. They suffered physical hardships and were emotionally starved.

This helps when trying to forgive them. Yes, they had no counseling. They had booze and fights.

It puts things into perspective. So now we whine about their mistreatment of us, and it is justified. But it's tame by comparison to what they were exposed to. Some sympathy is important.

Think about their inner child, you mom's and dad's. What chance did they have?

November 15, 2003
11:35 am
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Zinnie
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Hi Camper,

That is what I did to finally realize why my Mom was the way she was. If I hadn't I would have repeated the same pattern. Just hated her, the same way she hated her Mother. Then what berated my kids if they were too skinny, too fat or did not marry who I wanted them to?

My first husband was beaten and abused by his step-father; who also abused his Mom. He left home at 15. When he was able he went back and got his Mother, he was 20. By the grace of God, he was given some unbelievable talents and was able to earn a living, a good living. He built his Mom a little house. He provided well for his family.

He even fully blamed himself for his divorce, and knew not to make that same mistake with me. To the day he died, he gave endlessly to abused woman's shelters. He was firm with the kids, but he himself would never hit them - not even a swat on the rump. He said he would never do that to a child.

He told me that once when his oldest son was throwing a tantrum I guess he was about two or three - he picked him up and put him in his room. He said the child (it is so hard not to use names here!), started kicking the door. My husband slammed the door open and reached out to grab him, he was going to pop him on his rump. He said when he looked down, he saw himself (they did look alike). He said he closed the door, went into his bedroom and took off his shirt. He looked at the scars from knife marks from his step-dad and broke down into tears. When his wife came home, she found him like that.

I don't know if he ever forgave his step-father, and I do know he understood why his Mom had to stay in the marriage. But, he made the decision that he would never hit his children, although he still disciplined them firmly.

But, he saw the pattern and broke it. Hopefully, just like I did.

I think that is the way to recover. See the pattern, break it, and forgive them for what they may have done - IF they are only repeating a pattern that they might have grown up with.

November 15, 2003
1:12 pm
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unhappy camper
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Zinnie, that's a powerful story. Knife wounds? OMG.

I wish my husband would break his pattern, but how would I know except to live with him again. I'm not into taking that risk. I want him home and to be nice. But I won't get what I want. I didn't get it the first time around with him, why would I expect it to be any different.

My husband doesn't have moral values or a conscience. That is the difference.

He is self indulgent and he sucks.

love,
camper

November 16, 2003
7:56 am
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Zinnie
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Camper,

What you said struck a chord. When I think of my first Mother-in-Law, she died young. But, she was very very old. I never met her, she had passed away by the time we married.

She had my husband out of wedlock in the 40's, and married a man who as my husband put it "was willing to take her with an illegimate kid." For that she sold her soul to be respectable. He beat her and my husband. He had not conscience about what he was doing. Apparently when he would get drunk his reply to everything was "I took you in and you and your kid are nothing more than trash."

I'm glad you are away from your husband, I would hate the same fate for you.

You are loved.

Z.

November 16, 2003
11:09 am
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unhappy camper
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Thanks Zinnie
I just wrote my husband an email.

This one says "have the psychiastrist tell me directly what you mental health situation is or stay away from me forever".

His treatment centre told me he is seeing a psychiastrist. But I don't know what is happening.

And????? What?????

I need facts. Then I will decide.
I had decided to divorce him. I have a huge amount of people behind me for this. 100% of people who know my situation say get rid of him now.

I just want to know that I did the best I can. I will wait for that info. If it never comes, at least I asked.

I won't have a guilty conscience, or have to always wonder...what if....

Then there will be closure. I need to have that. I need to know I was fair to him, although he does not deserve it.

So either the doctor says....he is being cured, or he is not working at it, or he is a hard case (I have been told this often) or he is not coming to see me any more, etc etc

I would press the doctor to ascertain if he was being phony.

Then it would be down to my instincts. I would not live with him ever again until he is a new man and I truly can see that for myself. If he did revert to his old ways, I'd disappear in a puff of smoke.

I want to know what his mental health is now, or can expect to be in the future, how long, etc.

I am entitled to that info. If I hear nothing, then the divorce starts in a few weeks.

November 16, 2003
11:36 am
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Zinnie
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Hi Camper,

I'm glad to hear that. I'm glad that you realize you are worth far more than this man is willing to give. I also commend you on trying to find out everything so you will not have any unanswered questions.

I don't know much about my husband's step-father. What I know is that he married my mother-in-law and she had my husband who was a toddler. Some relative of his mother's told him once that he was the result of a rape. Another relative said that it was a married man and she claimed to have been raped to save face. He was also told that perhaps she herself did not know who his father was. Last but not least, a Great Uncle told him once that his mother's sister's husband was his father; and that was why he looked so much like his cousins. He said he could never bring himself to ask her. He pushed so much of that down and so deep, or so I thought.

His step-dad was cruel to his Mom, and very cruel to him. He died sometime in the early 1970's. When my mother-in-law left him, once the divorce was done and over with she never had contact with him again. She heard from a relative that he had died.

It made my husband a compassionate man to women and kind to kids, so maybe somehow along the line he dealt with his feelings and emotions along the line? He did not go to any kind of counseling that I know of. He had a shyness that was endearing. The one thing that I found strange is that he cheated on his first wife. It was a one time affair, which lasted for a week while he was in Europe. He admitted this to her, and she herself has said it was his own guilt that ended their marriage. She was willing to work it out.

When we met he was open about what happened, and said it would never happen between he and I. I almost always traveled with him and I have often wondered if it was his way of not being tempted? I don't know. He was a musician and a nice looking man at that. I will tell you this much, the music industries will provide just about anything their people want/need/desire. If it is not provided, there are people who will gladly offer it. I was WITH him one time, and we walked out a back door and he was literally assualted by women. Never mind that I was standing right there, and he had his arm about my waist.

Also due to his upbringing he was embarrased by his lack of formal education, although he was very intelligent. He made sure that his children had college funds set up long before they were even in school. Our oldest son has a Degree in Music, although he ended up following in his Dad's footsteps and not teaching. My oldest daughter had a degree in education, the next daughter is working on a degree in Liberal Arts, our youngest son is in University in England right now.

People can learn from their mistakes, and also from what they did not like in their life growing up.

I seem to have a lot of thoughts rumbling around this weekend.

In any case, I'm glad you are doing what you are, which in essence is taking care of you.

Love,

Zinnie

November 17, 2003
9:41 am
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sel0309
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I talked to my dad one night about his upbringing and then asked about my moms. I knew my mom's parents were very strict and abusive. When my grandmother was alive and I saw how she treated my mom it made me mad to see her be so nasty and mean to my mom. I remember one day when I was about 8 or 9 and my cousins were talking about an aunt that they didn't like. I asked them who they were talking about. They didn't want to say. Finally one of my cousins told me that they like the uncle and the kids, but didn't like th aunt. It was my mom who they were talking about. I understand that my mom had a difficult childhood and was physically and mentally abused. I tell myself that she did the best under the circumstances. As I continued the conversation with my dad, I told him that I wanted a mom like my daughter has, one that is excited when I get home, a mom who enjoys my company and listens to my stories, gives me kisses while I am asleep and praises her for all the great things she tries and accomplishes. My dad told me that she isn't capable of being that mom. His comment was true and it I was sad to hear that. But, then I realized that I need to accept the reality that she is the way she is. I keep a reasonable distance, but check in often and keep the conversations light. It is important to me to have a relationship with her. It isn't the ideal choice, but its better than nothing.

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