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A Father's Affection that Crossed the Line?
November 11, 2006
5:06 pm
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hoosiermom
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New member and a little nervous about spilling my beans right off the bat, but I'm driving my self crazy thinking about everything....and I could really use some good advice.

I've been married for 17 years and my 3 children are all almost out of high school. I just recently found out that my oldest daughter (who is 20 now and out of the house), endured some things from her father, my husband, while she was in high school.

It has taken me two weeks, starving myself, and smoking almost 2 packs of cigarettes a day....to build up the nerve to confront him about the situation. To my surprise, he admitted most of the accusations...but has only said he was wrong and he's sorry....like it's really not a big deal. No crying, no remorse, no emotion whatsoever. I just don't get it.

If someone would like to talk....I'd be happy to go into greater detail and hopefully receive some good advice.

Thanks!

November 11, 2006
5:34 pm
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snowlover
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Hoosiermom,

How is the relationship with your daughter and husband? How is your relationship with both of them?

I dont really know what to say, except that Im so sorry youre going thru this, and there are many wonderful people here that are very supportive. The weekends get a little slow, so dont get discouraged if it takes a while to get a response from some of these folks.

Snow

November 11, 2006
5:47 pm
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hoosiermom
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Thanks for your reply snowlover....

The relationship with my daughter is great except that she has stayed in Indiana when we moved to Florida last October. We communicate via cellphones, which doesn't do a hug & kiss justice.

As for my husband, it's always been a financial struggle...but I've tried to love him like I should.

Since finding out, I have to be honest in saying that one touch from him sends cold chills down my spine.

November 11, 2006
6:08 pm
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cyndra820
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Hoosier Mom,

Did she stay in Indiana because she didn't want to move to Florida or she doesn't want to live with the family any longer?

Are the two younger children boys?

How does she feel about what he did to her? Is she angry? Is she in counseling? You only have to tell us what was done if you want to. We don't want you to feel uncomfortable.

November 11, 2006
6:43 pm
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hoosiermom
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Cyndra,
She stayed in Indiana because of the situation. My youngest daughter is 18 and a senior in high school, my son is 16 and a junior.

I guess everything that happened was more "emotional" than anything...telling her that he was in love with her....and occasion happened where he licked and bit her ear....rubbing her back and getting too close to certain areas....and she always told him she was uncomfortable.

November 12, 2006
10:04 am
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cyndra820
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HoosierMom,

Has anything happened with your youngest daughter?

How are you feeling about the situation? I know there are a lot of emotions involved in this.

Does you daughter have a relationship with her father? How is that relationship?

Cyndra

November 12, 2006
10:21 am
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malibugirl
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I see lots of red flashing lights going off just reading your thread--My instinct would be to gather up the kids, united front, and get them all away from your husband. It is NOT a sign of affection from a father to a daughter to lick her ear and bite her ear. That is a sign of sexual aggression--he's looking for an outlet for what he feels sexually--biting is aggression--pack up the kids and move out. Your older daughter needs to get into counseling ASAP!!!

November 12, 2006
1:12 pm
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hoosiermom
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Cyndra,

I'm not sure about the youngest daughter...still trying to find out.
As for the relationship with my oldest and my husband...she's terrified for me to say anything to him about it. She actually doesn't know that I confronted him, and if she knew...she wouldn't come down in January to see me.

November 12, 2006
1:54 pm
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southgoingzax
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god, hoosiermom,

you are in a very difficult place - I think you and your daughter need to have an open, heart to heart about her feelings and what she would like to do about it, what you would like to do about the situation - is there any way you feel this can be resolved without divorce? I'm sure you are seriously concerned about all of this, and concerned for your other daughter's safety as well...

The actions of your husband are NOT excusable - he crossed a very big, wide line, and I don't blame you for being creeped out - any man who would do that to a child he was raising, is SICK. And when it is his OWN child, it's even worse. There is, in any animal population, (human included) taboos against interbreeding, real biological triggers that repress any sexual urges towards offspring. Your husband's behavior is therefore counter to those biological impulses as well as all of the socio-cultural taboos we humans have against incest.

Sorry to be so blunt, hoosier, but this is a very big problem. Your daughter needs to get into therapy. She may need to press charges. Your husband's lack of shame or guilt is astounding...I wouldn't know what to do, either, but your first priority is the safety of your children....I really really feel for you, please seek counseling for yourself too, so that you can figure out what you need to do.

zax

November 12, 2006
2:07 pm
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Zinnie
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Hoosier Mom,

Did he cross the line? YES.

Is that more the reason why your daughter chose to stay behind? YES.

I tried (in error on my part) to help a cousin of mine a few years ago. He was accused of molesting his grand-daughter. It was after cleaning out his storage shed and house that I found all kinds of damaging paperwork. This guy was far guiltier of anything that he had been accused of.

But, what I'm reading that is freaking me out... is according to the police report that his daughter filed during the original investigation (regarding the grand-daughter) that is giving me chills.

I am not at home right now, I'm traveling or I would quote word for word what it said - but, from memory there were instances of "I was 15 and had a "hickey" (sp?) from my boy friend. My Dad saw this, and pushed me against the side of the house and started sucking on my neck and feeling me all over saying "if you let some guy do that, then I can too." There were other things that she reported and many of them ended up being with some friend or another not being able to come over any more because of her father acting inappropriately.

You have to do what is right for YOU and YOUR children. At this point? He does not deserve your support, and he sure as hell is not in any place to feel that he should have any respect or relationship with your oldest daughter.

Fact: Pedophiles CAN NOT, I repeat CAN NOT be rehabilitated.

Z.

November 12, 2006
3:42 pm
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hoosiermom
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I figured as much...but I'm scared! I do have a friend in Indy that is going to talk with my daughter. I haven't given her the details, so her point of view will be honest and sincere.

Thanks to all for helping. I'll keep you informed on the situation.

November 12, 2006
4:50 pm
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Zinnie
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Hoosier,

One thing that I want to make you aware of... especially given that he admitted to these things happening and then the "it was a mistake" and no remorse. Again, it sounds as if we could be talking about my cousin as these are all the same things he did.

Another fact that I found out (as I have to study everything once becoming involved) - is that for every one crime a pedophile commits? Statistics say there are another 13 left unreported.

Interrogate your children that are with you now. If he has touched them, have him arrested and press charges. His "oh, sorry" is not going to stop him - I'm sorry to say. Get your oldest, the others and yourself into counseling.

Do what you have to do to survive. But, don't fall prey to his lies and apologies. Again, if he did this to one? She is not telling all, and/or he has done this to the other children as well.

Z.

November 12, 2006
4:53 pm
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cyndra820
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HoosierMom,

What have you said to your daughter? Does she know you believe her and that she has your support? How are you "trying" to find out from your youngest daughter? Have you asked directly or are you terrified of the answer?

I am not against you. You are in one tough spot. You have to decide what's best for your children. Can you seperate from your husband until all of this can be sorted out? If your eldest daughter went to the police would you still support her?

All of these are difficult questions, but you have got to do something to protect your children. This man has no right to do what he's done.

I'm sorry you are going through this and you are hurting. I hope you find the strength you need.

Love,
Cyndra

November 12, 2006
9:32 pm
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hoosiermom
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Cyndra-
Thanks for your support. She does know that I love her and support her...and believe her. He is very maniuplative, and she knows that and is afraid she will get blamed for everything. I told her it will be ok...As for my youngest daughter...I'm still asking questions.."when he's not around" so she can give me honest answers. I would support my children with "anything" positive!!!

November 13, 2006
7:57 am
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jastypes
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It might be uncomfortable for your daughter to know you confronted him, but in the long run it will tremendously help her healing to know that you believed her and stood up for her. I never told my mother what my father did to me -- never will. There's a lot to be said about your relationship with your daughter, that it was strong enough for her to even come to you. My father apologized to me, 20 years after the fact, and after I confronted him. His apology, I believe, was sincere and heartfelt. He didn't just say he was wrong. He said he never meant to cause me such lifelong, emotional harm. And what happened between my dad and me is not a lot different from what happened between your daughter and her dad. Very similar, in fact. I also found out it happened between him and my younger sister. And now my daughters are never allowed to alone with him.

jill

November 13, 2006
10:22 am
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lovetocrochet
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Please stand behind your daughters, and get them away from your husband. What he did to your daughter qualifies as sexual abuse and is a crime that violated her sense of trust.

My brother molested me and my father did things that were inappropriate. Between the two of them I ended up abused for almost 20 years.

When I told my mother she did NOTHING to protect me, and in fact sided with them or would tell them it was my problem to fix. That in my eyes makes her equally responsible and sometimes her betrayal has caused me more damage than the original abuse.

It doesn't matter if he's done anything to your other daughter or not. She is still at risk. I also hate to say it but it's possible your daughters are not the only ones in danger from his behavior. For that reason I suggest talking to an attorney about legal consequences against him.

Talk is cheap and anyone can say they're sorry. If he's not offering to do something to amend what he did, be it go to the authorities, get help, offer to pay for your daughter to get counseling, then he has no remorse... but from what you say it sounds like you know this.

I know changing things to protect yourself and your kids is scary. But it beats the alternatives you currently expose yourself to as long as you stay.

November 13, 2006
12:29 pm
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canadian_scorp
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Speaking as someone who's been through this as a teen -- please, please unconditionally support your children by leaving your husband.

My mother stayed with my father, out of her need for financial security and fear of change. She's been dead for fourteen years, but I've never forgotten that and it did a lot of damage to our relationship. At the time I told her about the abuse, my father was in the military, and she took me to see the chaplain at the military base and made me tell him exactly what happened. The chaplain's response was that if my father was charged, it would affect his military career, and he advised not to press charges.

Sexual abuse is not trivial. And given that your husband is treating it as such, and shows no remorse (much like my father) he WILL do it again and likely has. It's not "affection" -- it's a power and control thing.

Zinnie is right. The recidivism rates for sexual offenders are very high, and even with intensive treatment they will never be cured of their urges.

Please consider what everyone has said to you in this thread, and get yourself and your children away from your husband and also into counselling. Your kids have to come first, especially now, and they need to know that they have your unconditional love and support. By staying with your husband, the message that you are unwittingly sending out is that they do not come first.

November 13, 2006
1:09 pm
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truthBtold
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I noticed 3 sponsored links (where you sign in at) on this home page relating to this issue. Might provide some hope and direction.

November 13, 2006
1:14 pm
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revelation
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I am in agreement also with Zinnie on this. Hard as it might be for you to face up to...you just have to face up to it. Your husband sexually abused your children...why on earth would you want to stay with him? He told your daughter he was in love with her??? Thats beyond sickening...he sounds like a very sick man.

November 13, 2006
8:51 pm
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Zinnie
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Hoosier,

I had my husband fax this to me so I could say verbatium what the police report said. This was given to the police by my cousins daughter.

I am changing the names however.

On 4/11, I interviewed Mary in reference to her niece Susie. I asked Mary if she knew that her father, George was being investigated for allegedly molesting Susie and she said yes. I asked Mary if she had ever been molested by her father and she said as far as she knew no. Mary did say that she did get mentally abused as a child. Mary said her father was in the military and they moved around a lot when she was growing up. Mary said she lived in California from the age of 2 to 9. Mary said that while she lived in CA she was either with her younger brother or a younger cousin and they were in her fathers bedroom. Mary said while in the bedroom she remembers her father had masturbated in front of them and ejaculated. He then made her and the person she was with touch his sperm once he ejaculated.

Mary said that they later then moved to Arizona and while there she remembers her dad giving her and her friend, Bethany a beer and showing them a pornographic movie; Mary said she was in the 5th or 6th grade at the time. Mary said that a year or two later she had a boyfriend and he had given her a "hickey" on the neck and her father saw it. She said when he saw it first he beat her. Then over the next few days her father would grab her and suck and bite her neck, put his hands up under her bra and his hands down her panties and in her private area saying "if you let some man do that to you so can he. She stated that she had to run away from him.

Mary also stated while living in Arizona she rememberes catching her dad wrestling with a friend named Carrie on his bed. Mary said that they next moved to Japan while there she remembers an incident with another friend of hers named Katherine; who complained to Mary about her dad grabbing her panty hose. Mary said that Katherine told her parents about the incident and they came over and had a talk with her Dad. After that Katherine was not allowed to come over. Not long after that she remembers the MP's came and arrested her Dad and they were told to leave the island.

Hoosier - do you remember any of your kids friends not coming back over?

Z.

November 13, 2006
9:05 pm
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truthBtold
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Hoosier Mom.

I hope that you continue to post - and go bravely into the night....protecting your children!!!!

There are loads of help availble to you in your state - I am sure of it.

Please continue to post when you feel right about it!!!

You will NEVER BE WRONG to validate the experiences of your children...I only wish that I had a mom that was so brave!!!!!

November 13, 2006
11:57 pm
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lolli
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hoosiermom,

i will pray for your continued strength. it is so difficult what you are doing, but believing your daughter and supporting your kids is the most important thing. the most important thing you will ever do as a mom. ever.

i cannot stress how important it is for you to stand up to your husband and (optionally) a) tell him he goes into perpetration counseling and a support group IMMEDIATELY without argument or delay. if he does not immediately agree, then (not optional) b) file a police report immediately. do it right away. with every passing day, your daughter (and possibly your other children and/or relatives who have been abused in either overt or covert ways by him) has (have) to develop more and more coping mechanisms in order to deal with what has happened, and his lack of punishment and/or action is re-abusing her (them) every day that no action is taken. because when no action is taken, they continue to believe that there is nothing wrong with him (because he's not being held accountable) so the problem must be inside themselves. i know this because i am a survivor of both overt and covert sexual and emotional abuse.

unfortunately for you (and i am SO so sorry that this has happened to your family and that you have to deal with this- but you CAN do it, you can!), your actions now are AS IMPORTANT in shaping your daughter's life as his devastatingly abusive behavior has been.

unfortunately, his abuse of your daughter (and its unavoidable effect on her siblings even if they haven't been abused) has MOST LIKELY gone on for a very long time. The incidents your daughter reported to you are most likely the culmination of years and years of his laying the groundwork for this type of thing (even if he says "it was just this once," and even if he is most likely in DENIAL and really believes it- this does NOT EVER just happen suddenly). she might not have been aware of the more subtle stuff when she was younger because she was too young and naive (rightfully so) to understand. and as i said, he is probably so full of guilt and shame that his sanity right now depends on his continued DENIAL. that is why he was unable to feel/show remorse. he is so far in denial (minimizing) that he can't yet feel the pain of what he really did. he is going to need SERIOUS counseling for a good, long time to come to terms with this.

a very helpful book on the subject of covert abuse is called, "The Emotional Incest Syndrome."

I'm including here an excerpt in hopes that it helps you or others on this thread:

"I have had quite a few clients, both men and women, whose parents walked this fine line between emotional and sexual incest. Their parents didn't touch them inappropriately, but they displayed an unhealthy interest in their bodies. Some had parents who did not allow them privacy in the bedroom and bathroom. Others had parents who openly stared at their bodies, took seductive pictures of them, or made inappropriate sexual remarks. When parents are both sexually and emotionally fixated on their children, the enmeshment is usually more intense and more damaging." It goes on to explain that this type of emotional incest can take the form of treating one's child as a girlfriend in emotional though not sexual ways (e.g., confiding "adult" problems, involving child in decision-making, treating her as "daddy's special girl," etc). It is an unhealthy bond that is really difficult to break even in adulthood (even when there is no contact between child and parent, it continues in adult child's mind) and takes the help of a GOOD counselor to untangle.

But all of this IS healable. It is possible for everyone in your family to heal from this. The sooner everyone gets into counseling, the better. take a deep breath, and then take this next step immediately. you can even get free/low cost counseling in most parts of the country if money is an issue.

Stay strong, hoosiermom. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

(((hoosiermom)))

November 14, 2006
1:11 am
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sis_who_got_help
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It would almost be worth the money to set up one of those hidden cameras to see if he's doing anything with the youngest daughter. My support goes out to you in this time. Have you decided what is going to happen with your marriage?

November 14, 2006
7:47 am
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Hoosiermom,

You not only need to ask your youngest daughter if your husband has done anything to her....you also need to ask your son. I was molested as a child, by my step-father. A few months ago, 25 years later, I found out that my brother was also molested by this monster! When I was 14 years old, I told my mother about what happened. She questioned him, and as your husband, he admitted to it, and swore that it would never happen again. It didn't happen anymore, but I do resent my mother for staying with this man. She is still with him, and my brother told her about him after he told me. She asked him about my brother, and he completely denied it. I guess in his mind it was okay to molest me, because I'm a girl, but it was definately wrong to molest my brother, because he was a boy. You definately need to find out from your other children, if anything happened to them....and stand behind each & every one of them.

I forgive my mother, and I still love her very much, but there is still some resentment there. I just don't understand how she can stay with a man that did this to her children. I have a little sister who is 16 (daughter of the monster). Mama finally told my little sister what had happened to me & my brother. She didn't say that anything had ever happened to her. I hope & pray that he hasn't done the same things to her that he did to my brother & I.

November 17, 2006
10:26 pm
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hoosiermom
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Lilli-
Thanks for the book idea...I will be looking into that.
I will keep in touch....thanks to all.

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