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2b, in response to the 'how are you' thread (ef)
July 11, 2005
3:14 pm
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2bstrong
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Turnabout: You are so sweet. Your words brought tears to my eyes. Yes, I do look back and think--what was happening there? Why did I stay? I ask that every week at counseling.

Isn't that funny? Some of you thought he was an addict and I never said it--although I know I said that he wasn't an alcoholic. All of the books I've read on addiction have clearly shown that he is an addictive personality. Nothing will come between them and their addiction. Yes, he does drink a lot. Every social event and family gathering is drinking-related. He works for the largest brewery in the world. Need I say more?

July 11, 2005
3:28 pm
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frayedknot
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2B

Let me address the rest of your letter..

Not one person has told me to contact my ex either. NOT ONE. In fact those people that know both of us tell me I deserve much better than she can provide me. From what I have read about your relationship today and in the past 2B; YOU DESERVE SO MUCH MORE THAN YOU HAVE RECEIVED OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS. I get the impression you have stayed with him out of the fear of the unknown. Bad dating experiences in 99, etc.

It's sad to me that he couldn't tell you he loved you. And, because of his uncomfort, you couldn't tell him. My ex and I exchanged "I love you" statements daily... sometimes, several times in a day.. I won't be with someone who doesn't have strong feelings and can't share them.

2B.. I know I'm on the oustide looking in at your relationship.. And, I don't know the nice things he did for you. But, I truly believe that someday you will be so much happier without him. You will probably wonder what you saw in him.

So, when's Orlando?

Frayed

July 11, 2005
3:28 pm
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turnabout
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Oh,... and that movie frayed mentioned is "When a Man Loves a Woman". It wasn't a Baldwin, though.. I think it was Andy Garcia. Very moving picture. Thinking of it now, I remember how the Meg Ryan character's drinking affected the oldest daughter. That was something always in the back of my mind with my ex. Why am I with this guy? Why do I want to be with him more intimately? I may be able to put up with his drinking, but what would it do to our (future) kids? How can I subject my kids to a father like that? (note: I have no children, btw. I've just always felt this sense of responsibility to my future kids, even though I took leave of my senses in this situation - sheesh.)

July 11, 2005
3:33 pm
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turnabout
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ooh, and Orlando...!

Can we go to the parks too? We can rename the rides to fit a codependent theme. LOL Like, we could arrange to 'bump' into each other at the 'Tower of Unkept Promises'! (I think a freefall is the perfect ride for that one!) And how about 'The Ex's Wild Ride'? (We could personalize that one... Mine would be 'Mr. O's Wild Ride'. Heehee)

July 11, 2005
3:37 pm
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2bstrong
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Frayed, turnabout...both of you brought tears to my eyes. They say love is blind. Well, I am a testament to that statement.

I would sit in my office and hear my director say I love you to her husband every day. Ex would sign his cards, "love P", but that was it. When he broke up with me over the phone that night, I remember saying "I wonder if you ever loved me?" And his response was, "2b, I always cared for you." CARED for you.
Think I may have to rent that movie tonight. I've heard it's very good.

Looking at August 12-14, or 19-21 Orlando or bust! What do you think? Will start designing the 2b-tshirt. : )

July 11, 2005
3:42 pm
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2bstrong
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Are you kidding turnabout? That's why I want to go. I have no reason to make this up--I was planning to go and hang out because I know it's a place I could go alone. If you guys don't show up--that's ok. There's so much to do to take your mind off of everything.

Ha! LOL! Mr. O's Wild Ride! How about: "It's a small EX after all?"

Is that lame or what?

July 11, 2005
3:44 pm
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Turnabout

Thanks for the movie title. I'm going to rent it.... Also, your post said in a better way the same things I was trying to say to 2B. You ladies are so much better with words and emotions than us men.. My counselor once told me that when it comes to emotions, men have 2 colors, black and white. Women have the 256 crayola box.. What a nice friend we have in you...

2B

My gosh you worked hard for this man... It was the ultimate give and take relationship. You gave and he took.. Massage therapy classes just to please your man? You are going to find a man who treats you right and the next 10 years will more than make up for the last 10 years. Keep confessing if you like. I'm glad you are getting some of this stuff out... It will help you to see what a bad relationhsip you endured...

Tell P______ to go make love to his Clydesdales.... Jacksonville has a brewery...

I'm leaving in a few minutes... I will check back when I get home later tonight.

Frayed

July 11, 2005
3:57 pm
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2B

Orlando the 12-14 is best for me. I'm suppose to have my boys the 19-21. However, my boys are teenagers and visitation is very loose.. I can reschedule easily... I will be driving, so, I will have a car..

I will go.. I have nothing in my life but freedom right now.. My dad told me to enjoy my freedom. So, I'm taking dad's advice..

I'm leaving... chat tomorrow..

Frayed..

July 11, 2005
4:06 pm
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turnabout
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Y'know, Orlando is such an appropriate idea for this. A few months ago when I was entrenched in romanticizing the ex, one of the things that made me so sad was remembering my failed plans at arranging an Orlando vacation with our group of friends. When I first tried planning it, he wanted to go, but wasn't able to join b/c he was in school. (his one brief foray into self-improvement) When my plans fell through, it remained in the back of my mind that we would go one day. A desire to regain that dream was one of the reasons I started contacting him again back then. It was like you wanting to ask the ex about how the stuff you picked out together looked, 2b. (I've got my stories straight? that was you, right?)

How appropriate to take the same trip, only this time celebrating kicking his a** to the curb! Hah!

July 11, 2005
6:33 pm
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frayedknot
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Tunabout

Great attitude.. My ex always talked about going to Orlando. She works in an HR department and could get discount tickets.. I'm not going to ask her for any, however.. LOL I will just go without her and celebrate my independance.

Frayed

July 11, 2005
9:52 pm
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You guys are really making me laugh, every time anyone mentions travel at all now, I just picture a bunch of fuzzy faced people in 'codep' tshirts wandering around an airport lobby...

turnabout, I too love your attitude, I personally fear always having a scared little chip on my shoulder, never really feeling truly entitled to moving foreward...I know that will pass, but what I wouldn't give to be saying and meaning that I actually celebrate kicking his A88 to the curb--or walking out and telling him to take his conditions for us to work it out and shove them up his conceited alcoholic A** if he ever thought I would even CONCIDER working to please HIM and make sure HE felt good about things, as it where.

But, bitterness aside (wow, and bitter I am...I didn't even know it was still that bad! well, at least I'm not second guessing my choice anymore), I do still constantly wish things could be different more than I can accept that they are never going to be the way I saw them. I'm afraid I'll always feel that way sometimes.

Keep celebrating that independance guys, I am looking to you! Go forth and--well, whatever, something totally healthy and not codep, anyway. Inspire me! Please!:)

July 11, 2005
10:21 pm
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frayedknot
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EF

I think we all feel like you. We all love our ex's and wish we could live happily ever after with them. And, maybe, that will happen for a few people. I would love to hear a story from somebody that their ex has hit bottom and is seriously committed to changing their lives.. I mean they seriously get their shit together and come crawling back asking for forgiveness. I would be so happy if this happened to you or one of our friends. But, we have to play the odds... We have to move on... Our ex's will always own a piece of our heart. They are siginfigant to our history.. to who we are today and who we will be tomorrow.

Frayed

July 11, 2005
10:37 pm
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turnabout
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I used to NOT LIKE knowing that I would eventually get over him, even when at my bitterest... perhaps especially when at my most bitter. Anger and bitterness is, after all, a way of holding onto them. I knew that, too, but couldn't help myself. It's just something we have to go through.

It's been a year for me. It's taken this long. And besides the time, it has taken a lot of beating my head against a wall trying to hold onto the last vestige of belief in the guy I loved and trusted, ever reducing my expectations in order to do so -- going through waves of hating him, longing for him, grieving him...

Y'know, I think our lives (all of us) became so out of balance with making someone else more important than ourselves ... like the old-fashioned scales where his side is heavier ... we have to remove the elements we gave over to them piece by piece .. elements like our trust, our self-worth, our power, our self-trust, our self-acceptance ...until we the scales balance, and eventually our side becomes heavier ... when we value ourselves more than them. But the only way to do it is piece by piece. We have to equalize them first in order to have perspective on who they are with humanity and compassion. Removing their value immediately (picture kicking him off the scales)is unnatural. It would mean we had aggrandized ourselves without concern for their value. It would mean we had turned into them.

So, I wouldn't begrudge you your bitterness. Question it with all the why's and wherefore's so that you can heal, but don't fight it. You have a right to it.

July 11, 2005
10:40 pm
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frayedknot
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2B

I have reread your postings on this thread today, the 11th.. MY GOSH YOU HAVE ENDURED SO MUCH PAIN WITH YOUR EX. You have sacrificed so much and received so little from your ex. I just know in my heart that wonderful times are coming to you!!!!!

Based on the long history with your ex, your no contact strength inspires me. You are a very strong lady.....

I'm eager to hear "the rest of the story" as you referred to earlier in this thread.

Frayed

July 11, 2005
10:45 pm
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frayedknot
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Turnabout...

You are a deep thinker.. I like the scale analogy.. Each day, work to take a little piece away from them and put it on our side.. very good...

Frayed

July 11, 2005
10:59 pm
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turnabout
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Frayed, I share your sentiment about hoping for a story of reconciliation for at least one of us, but I think it's poignant to know that it wouldn't happen for the people we were... the enablers we were. It probably won't happen at all, but if it does, it will only happen for the person who has learned to respect him/herself enough to stop the destructive patterns in their relationships. I, too, hope for the best possible scenario. I pray for my ex every night, but am committed to letting that be the extent of my dedication unless/until he proves a strong dedication to me.

July 11, 2005
11:26 pm
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Y'know, I think our lives (all of us) became so out of balance with making someone else more important than ourselves ... like the old-fashioned scales where his side is heavier ... we have to remove the elements we gave over to them piece by piece .. elements like our trust, our self-worth, our power, our self-trust, our self-acceptance ...until we the scales balance, and eventually our side becomes heavier ... when we value ourselves more than them. But the only way to do it is piece by piece. We have to equalize them first in order to have perspective on who they are with humanity and compassion. Removing their value immediately (picture kicking him off the scales)is unnatural. It would mean we had aggrandized ourselves without concern for their value. It would mean we had turned into them.

Turnabout, I could cry reading this--I used to have a way with words, and so often regarding these sort of matters, English seems like a foreign language to me for the grasp I have on explaining myself or asking what I am trying to. This really touched on a lot of what I am trying to say to myself so often. thank you so much...I think I'm gonig to print this one up for the diaper bag.

July 12, 2005
7:24 am
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frayedknot
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Turnabout...

I agree that we must commit to our own personal growth and no longer be an enabler if our ex's want to return. Anything short of that change in ourselves and/or accepting our ex's as they were when we parted would only begin the sick cycle once again.. And, I for one, refuse an encore performance of this crap..

EF

I have visions of you pulling your reading material out of your diaper bag.. Sitting on a park bench.. a look of content running accross your face. :o)

Frayed

July 12, 2005
10:08 am
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Frayed, I share that vision! Except when I am fishing rocks out of the wee ones mouth, picking her up from a nasty spill, telling a sticky faced three year old whos parents are nowhere in sight exactly why she can't hold the baby...usually the biaper bag goods come out when she's napping while we're out. And then, oh you better beleive theres content looks all over my face:)

I just got a call from a friend of mine who works in our court system doing circulation of docets (a summer job for me once too). SHe looked up his file on her lunch break, please don't tell, and found that he has a warrent here for public intoxication and disturbing the peace. And because he never got it taken care of he also ahs to keep a couple lesser charges regarding his University where he was doing these things. I forgot all about this, and I know for a fact he doesn't want his parents to know. She also asked around, it seems as though no-one can understand why I am worried-he has no legal claims to her at all as she lives with me. I am the primary caregiver, and unless HE takes me to court and proves that I am an unfit mother (after getting his drunken warrent taken care of?) which anyone would be more than a liite hard pressed to do, there is nothing I have to worry about. I'm just as releived as all get out, and a little disapointed in myself for handing control over my life over to someone with literally no reason to yet again. I'm going to go easy on myself though, remind myself that this is all a matter of someone manipulating control. and that I was keeping my head the whole time.

Also, what a way to drop some romanticizing for the time being. Well, the point of this post is that I have one less thing weiging on me, thank goodness. Things are just that much easier now, and every little bit helps. Thanks for letting me ramble, ya'll.

BTW, who is making up the t-shirts?

July 12, 2005
10:10 am
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Good morning 2B

How was your night last night? Did you go to the gym? How do you keep yourself busy at night?

I went to the gym and worked on a tax return.. I was going to rent the movie "When a man loves a woman", but, when I read the synopsis, the story was about love overcoming the alcohol problem. Didn't want a happy ending story.. Thought it would make me feel worse. My counselor told me yesterday that volunteer work would be good for me. I just can't find anything I want to do and don't want to over commit myself. Then I came to a conclusion... I enjoy this site and I get comfort from helping others as well as receiving help. This is my volunteer work...

I still constantly check my email for "contact". Last night on the way to the gym, I think she crossed in front of me in an intersection (probably my imagination). It gave me a sick feeling in my stomach.. It would be difficult to see her anytime soon..

I read in another thread where you would like to know how the ex's summer is going, etc. I don't want to know that about my ex. The less I know, the better.

Hope your morning is going well...:o)

Frayed

July 12, 2005
10:17 am
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EF

How old is your baby? I hope the father is helping financially.. It's not my business.... and, maybe you don't want his help so he has less rights to visitation, etc. Would you care if he had visitation versus custody?

I'm happy you are improving and finding more and more comfort as time passes..

Frayed

July 12, 2005
10:20 am
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turnabout
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Gosh, ef, I know that is a huge relief. And, yes, your worry over it is a classic example of the effects of his 'crazymaking'. Besides the obvious security this allows you in knowing your daughter is safe with you, maybe this can also allow you more security in the other things you've questioned and doubted yourself over.

Morning frayed! Your ex doesn't care to check in with you, either, huh? I know it's better for us, but hurts like heck, doesn't it. I can only shake my head at their stupidity.

Glad to see you guys this morning. I'm not usually able to get online while at work, but the boss is away today. Heehee!

July 12, 2005
10:23 am
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frayed, I do that too, with the e-mail. Turnabout, 2b, do you guys have any tips about combatting it? On really bad days I will block his address--even though I know he won't write, it helps me to know that even if he did it wouldn't be there anyway so there's no point in checking. But it's been 10 days since I have obssessed beyond that or talked to him at all, and that feels good.

Turnabout, I was just thinking, I got into this whole scare in the post of mine above because of that very thing I coppied to read. I didn't even trust my own right to my own child more than his half baked notions of what is 'best'. Can I just thank you again for posting that? Really, It's great.

July 12, 2005
10:27 am
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frayed, she is 13 mo. I guess not a baby anymore. And yes, she gets child support. Seldome on time, but always in full.

Turnabout, yes I was just thinking about crazymaking. I can see you now, turn, feet on your bosses desk, smoking a cigar and checking your e-mail, playing computer solitair, riding your chair down the hall for kicks...!

July 12, 2005
10:28 am
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Turnabout

Nice you can come come out and play today......:o)

My ex obviously wasn't in the same relationship I thought we were in. She was the best actress I have ever been with.. Told me nice things and made me feel like I hung the moon and stars. Turns out, I'm nothing but dog shit on her shoe she couldn't wait to get rid of... Oh well.. I truly believe someday she will regret this choice along with many other poor choices she has made...

How are you today, Turnabout?

Frayed

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