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2b, in response to the 'how are you' thread (ef)
July 8, 2005
2:35 pm
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frayedknot
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Bye TC

We will miss you... July 17 is a long time away!!!.. :o( Have a great, great, great time. Look forward to a few stories when you get back...

Frayed

July 8, 2005
2:46 pm
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frayedknot
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2B

Bring it on 2B... I have a flexible weekend planned. All of my weekends are flexible....

Portugal. How exciting!!! It's nice to look forward to vacation plans. September will be here before you know it..

I was interested in the post from you and Dusty about going to the floor when depressed/panicked. My heart will race and I feel like I'm not connected to my body when I get a grief attack regarding the ex. I haven't had that for quite some time. I'm always nervous about meeting her out somewhere.. How would I react... Could I stay or would I have to leave the premises. Could I keep calm or would I get upset...yuk!..

July 8, 2005
2:55 pm
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2bstrong
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Hi Frayed,

I can't understand the need to be on the floor. I wonder if it's almost as if, "I can't get any lower than this". So, I lie down with my cheek on the floor. It does pass, and I have always gotten off of the floor (obviously), but usually I'm there for a while.

I am not ready to see him out in public! That frightens me. I don't know what I would do--I think I would have to leave. I know that I would be very upset regardless of the circumstances. That is why I have been avoiding all of our usual places. I hope that will pass, but it is toooooo sooon. I need time and space for that encounter. I need to make a new life for myself to be able to handle that.

Somewhere I was reading about imagining the worst thing that would happen so that when it does, you will be prepared for it. I don't know if I am even ready for that. Were you worried once you saw her attorney last night that she was going to be there? I don't even want to see any of his/our friends! It makes me nervous thinking about it.

July 8, 2005
3:17 pm
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frayedknot
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2B

I was worried about seeing her when I saw the attorney.. For the rest of the night, I was looking for her. It kind of ruined my night. I was out on the town and had her off my mind and then... poof, the biggest reminder of all walks past me.. I still claim he looked and acted like a dink. That gave me confidence. Not to toot my own horn, but I work-out very hard and don't get many complaints from females. People usually guess that I'm in my upper 30's or around 40.

I use to say that I would leave if I saw her. But lately, I have been telling myself that I did nothing wrong. I took the high road in the entire relationship.. I was 100% honest. She is the one who should have a guilty conscious. I want her to be uncomfortable seeing me out. I'm not aggressive when it comes to talking to women in bars. But, if I saw her, I would run up to the most attractive ladies there and act like they were my best friends.. Ideally, I would be there with someone who made me forget about her anyway (someone from out of state?... hee hee hee). I would like to be strong enough to stay and not run. However, I don't know how I would feel were it to actually happen. Like you, I try to avoid "our restaurant", "our bar", etc.

At this point, just seeing her would really hurt. I haven't seen her since the day she broke-up with me. That's been almost 2 months. I took all of her pictures and put them in a drawer.. I haven't looked at them once.

Wow! You actually put your cheek against the floor?.. That is interesting. Come to think of it... in movies, I think people go to the floor swometimes when they are in extreme grief...

July 8, 2005
3:29 pm
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dustygirl
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2B - I know the whole cheek on the floor - fetal position. Maybe it's wishing we could go back to when we were babies and life seemed to uncomplicated!

July 8, 2005
3:53 pm
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2bstrong
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Frayed,

At the very least, you are trying to go on with your life. It is inevitable that we will see them again. It's another thing that we have no control over.

I need to adjust my attitude to be more in the line of what you're thinking. Why in the hell am I the one who feels like a jack ass? I didn't do anything wrong! Boy if kc were here, she would be firing words at us like missiles. I am going to use exotic's method of envisioning myself wishing him well.

I haven't seen him since April 17. I guess that's almost three months ago. His loss. I, too put all of his pictures away and any mementos that I could. It is almost impossible after that long of time together to rid my home of anything that reminds me of him.

Here's a funny story, sort of. The other night I was looking at my feet and I just started crying because he used to tell me all of the time to get the bunions on my feet fixed and he would take care of me during my recovery. It made me cry and cry because I can't even look at my feet without thinking of him.

LOL! I promise that next time I hit "the floor" I will wail and scream and nash my teeth like Scarlett O'Hara! You are too cute, frayed.

Dusty: That's even better! I wonder if that's what it is? The desire for the safety of the womb?

July 8, 2005
6:52 pm
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turnabout
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Y'all are talking about vacationing, and I'm thinking of EVACuating! Ugh!!! The beach??? No WAY!!! LOL

I LUV the t'shirt idea, 2b. That makes me giggle. Maybe we should all agree to meet at a mutually agreeable place... in cognito... except for cryptic white t-shirts with screen names in black lettering... and when we see each other, we can't really speak, but just walk around warily eyeing everyone until we "accidently" bump into each other.. real covert like,... X-files style. LOL

My WILD imagination....

July 8, 2005
7:28 pm
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frayedknot
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2B

Great attitude. WE DIDN'T do anything wrong.. I wonder what KC would say about running into our ex's in a public place? Would she stay or would she go? Kind of lyrical...

It's been 3 months for you without seeing him? You are a tough cookie... (Scarlett O'Hara) And with your no contact, we are very similar.. We may be the only 2 in here that aren't being contacted and haven't seen our ex's in such a long time. Especially based on the relative newness of our break-ups. I hate that you are in my same boat (for your sake), but I love being able to share this experience with you (for my sake). Next time you look at your feet and think of your ex... Think about kicking those bunions up his rear so far that they need to be surgically removed!!!

Turnabout

I love your WILD imagination.. I nominate you to be in charge of the reunion....

You are in the possible path of Dennis? Sorry to hear that. We had such a lousy hurricane season last year.. I was on vacation for 2 of the 4 that gave us damage. Don't need a repeat..

I'm off with my 14 year old son to get some pizza and listen to some live music.. Have a great evening everybody..

Frayed

July 8, 2005
8:06 pm
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exoticflower
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I miss everything juicy.

Have a good time tc!

2b, freyed, turnabout, tc, thanks for your imput here before you all got so rowdy!:)

It's true, we didn't do anything wrong--I can't think about how many times I have beat myself up over not having made things go differently, how I have thought about every little detaial that may have dominoed into where I am today. SO much of it was his poor choices and my pain, so much of it was just the way it was, so much of it was his alcoholism, my NOT WANTING what he had and visa versa, his cheatin' heart, so many lies...it was inevitable. What one thing could any of us have done differently that could have changed who THEY are? And it is a huge part of it. We could have worked on us till we where blue in the face, but if it went right, would we want them anyway? Or would they want us? All healthy and hopeful and stable, boudaries and all?

Just trying to think like kc a bit...not my best firing, but I tried!

July 8, 2005
9:03 pm
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frayedknot
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EF

BRAVO!!!!! I couldn't have summed it up any better... It's so refreshing to hear other stories that are similar. I also second guess what I could have done different. It really comes down to me stating my dissatisfaction with some of her drinking. I guess I could have enabled a little more... Or, become an alcoholic myself..... NOT!!!!!!

Thanks for your addition EF.... :o)

Frayed

July 8, 2005
11:46 pm
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exoticflower
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Not in the case of some of you, but I have the misfortune of having to deal with this man, one determained to maintain a romantic view of himself to others, because of our daughter. He has gone so far as to convince me that he had to drink to cope with my behavior, that he is so much better since I left (he is drunk and sluring constantly any time we discuss anything), that he is not sexually reckless (6 partners at least in the course of 8 months, from a virgin when we met). It seems to me that if We could stand back for a second and see these sort of men or women through the eyes of strangers but with the benefit knowing what we do from being close to them...wow. The light is impossible to turn off then.

You know, I think things are getting better, not even acting as if here, just accepting something that seems so plain as day now. You're right freyed, it is refreshing having so much imput, being able to see the constants and break it down from there.

July 9, 2005
4:17 am
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turnabout
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Yup, Frayed, Hne. Dennis is headed for me. Fun times. < >

I wonder if this constant questioning we do isn't really about the relationship we had with them (i.e. love and affection for them) so much as it is a continuation of cycling through the codependency we had with them. I mean, think of it like one of those playground merry-go-rounds. We were spinning to begin with, but then our partners suddenly jumped off and just left us there. We stay on and keep going in circles, and maybe without the other face to focus on we feel the dizziness and disorientation from the spinning we were doing all along. We tried so hard to fix things and make them right when we were with them that it became part of our lifestyle, and we just keep cycling through it.

That would mean a lot our pain comes out of continuing an existing unhealthy pattern and not so much about losing them. My last year was just one big repeated cycle... giving up on him, indignance, grief, anger, longing, compassion, forgiveness, frustration, ...back to giving up, etc. I guess I did all of that when I was with him, too, to some degree. It was just different then because at some point in the cycle, I felt encouraged about making progress. But over the last year, the only significant encouragement I've received was the kind I invented for myself through attempts to justify his behavior (what could I have done differently?) and thoughts of how he MUST miss me (b/c what we had was significant, and I'm such a delicious morsel besides. LOL). Actually, the encouragement I felt then existed only b/c I had him in my life to use as a measuring stick, but I was measuring his reactions to make them fit whatever I was looking for. It wasn't real. Since he left, I lost my measuring stick, ... but I shouldn't have ever turned him into that tool. WE shouldn't use someone else as our measuring stick, ever.

Come to think of it, I think that's what this romanticizing tendency is about. We are desperately looking for some encouragement that we matter. We think we need it from them, but aren't there other sources for us to feel that we matter? Aren't there other people who can make us feel like we do? I think that's part of why this site is special to many of us. Here, we feel heard, understood, and accepted. Here, we feel that our stories and our input into others' situations matters.

July 9, 2005
8:52 am
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exoticflower
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turnabout, you are a genious. This is one of the first things I saw this morning, and there is so much to it, mostly so much that keeps the focus un US, concidering them, but not handing all of the life problems over to them...I think I'm going to print this bit up, these are things I need to spend more time thinking about. Thanks!

July 9, 2005
10:15 am
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frayedknot
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Turnabout

Take care of your self regarding Dennis.. Are you going to evacuate?

My ex was EXACTLY what I want in so many ways. I adore her. Physically, she was my type. She's intelligent. Already has her children. Financially independant. We loved being together (I thought). Sexually, we both had the same appetite (I thought), etc, etc. She had one bad apple in her fruit salad... The alcohol. And, that spoils the entire dish. When she drank every night, that made me uncomfortable. At the end of our relationship, she became untrustworthy. That's a terrible feeling in the pit of your stomach.. I wish I could conjure up the uncomfortable and sick feelings everytime I romanticize her. I have this terrible feeling that I will never love anyone the way I love her. I know I can't get serious with anybody else if the new person doesn't replace my ex in my heart. So far, I have dated 5 different ladies in the last 2 months and none of them give me the feelings I had with my ex on our first date and every day forward. I try to move on... but these experiences tend to validate the romanticizing of my ex. It's like I have a hangover for my ex after each date with someone else. The new date takes my mind off of my ex while we are together and then, after the date, I realize I'm not with the right person.. My ex appeared to feel the same way about me. She was a little insecure about losing me, etc. Then, all of a sudden, she left me... And, hasn't looked back... It's really hard for me to understand. I don't know if I will ever know her true feelings and motivations.. I will just keep trying to move on and hope I kiss the right frog.

Are you dating, Turnabout? If so, what have your experiences been like?

My tendency is to fall fast and deep when I meet someone I truly like.. If I don't like them, they don't grow on me. Do several other people in this site have the same relationship M.O.?

Frayed

July 9, 2005
11:40 am
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My M.O. is this.Get involved with a man I had to really prove myself to, almost always with friends and family completely unlike me or my own, Intense poetic passionate love, LONG relationships. I tend towards alcoholics, usually very conceited ones who are a bit in awe of me onc3e i prove myself to them. I've almost always been cheated on, becasue I ask too much from them is what I've always heard. But I do absolutely have to have that immediate 'that one' alarm go off in my head, if someone doesn't make me feel...I guess some sort of admiration and awe of them, doesn't leave me feeling sort of a rush, I just never really get to that point. Ho hum guys always stay that way for me, but I'm usually so long-term invoved with mister blow-my-mind guy that I don't run into the problem--or of course, involved with trying to get that guy to begin with. If this makes sense.

Freyed, I loved the salad comparison, that is exactly what it was for me I thought, though I am seeing now that there was a lot more to it...there are all of those alcoholic-enabler behaviors that I have started to see in our day to day life togeather...but so much of him was realy what I thought I wanted, I'm really scared of never connecting on a level like that again...of course, maybe that level was always imagined...and I have to remember that I have to start with me if anything else is to get better.

Turnabout, Good luck there...I'll keep my umbrella crossed for you. Make sure to keep us posted as to how you are?

July 9, 2005
11:55 am
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sdesigns
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Hi Guys: I 've been reading this thread and remembered this past thread. You were talking about love addiction and I think may help.

This is a past thread by Whyme but maybe it could help some folks now. SD
whyme85 19-Apr-04

Counseling Center --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Addictive Relationships It is often very hard to end a love relationship even when you know it is bad for you. A "bad" relationship is not the kind that is going through the usual periods of disagreement and disenchantment that are inevitable when two separate people come together. A bad relationship is one that involves continual frustration; the relationship seems to have potential but that potential is always just out of reach. In fact, the attachment in such relationships is to someone who is "unattainable" in the sense that he or she is committed to someone else, doesn't want a committed relationship, or is incapable of one. Bad relationships are chronically lacking in what one or both partners need. Such relationships can destroy self-esteem and prevent those involved from moving on in their careers or personal lives. They are often fertile breeding grounds for loneliness, rage, and despair. In bad relationships the two partners are often on such different wave-lengths that there is little common ground, little significant communication, and little enjoyment of each other.

Remaining in a bad relationship not only causes continual stress but may even be physically harmful. An obvious harm is the physical abuse that is often a part of such relationships. In a less obvious way, however, the tensions and chemical changes caused by the constant stress can drain energy and lower resistance to physical illness. Continuing in such bad relationships can lead to unhealthy escapes such as alcohol or drug abuse and can even lead to suicide attempts.

In such relationships, individuals are robbed of several essential freedoms; the freedom to be their best selves in the relationship, the freedom to love the other person through choice rather than through dependency, and the freedom to leave a situation that is destructive.

Despite the pain of these relationships, many rational and practical people find that they are unable to leave, even though they know the relationship is bad for them. One part of them wants out but a seemingly stronger part refuses or feels helpless to take any action. It is in this sense that the relationships are "addictive."

Are You Addicted? Listed below are several signs of addiction. Consider whether they apply to you:

Even though you know the relationship is bad for you (and perhaps others have told you this), you take no effective steps to end it. You give yourself reasons for staying in the relationship that are not really accurate or that are not strong enough to counteract the harmful aspects of the relationship. When you think about ending the relationship, you feel terrible anxiety and fear which make you cling to it even more. When you take steps to end the relationship, you suffer painful withdrawal symptoms, including physical discomfort, that is only relieved by reestablishing contact. If most of these signs apply to you, you are probably in an addictive relationship and have lost the capacity to direct your own life. To move toward recovery, your first steps must be to recognize that you are "hooked" and then try to understand the basis of your addiction. In this way, you gain the perspective to determine whether, in reality, the relationship can be improved or whether you need to leave it.

The Basis of the Addiction There are several factors that can influence your decision to remainin a bad relationship. At the most superficial level are practical considerations such as financial entanglement, shared living quarters, potential impact on children, feared disapproval from others, and possible disruption in academic performance or career plans.

At a deeper level are the beliefs you hold about relationships in general, about this specific relationship, and about yourself. These beliefs may take the form of learned societal messages such as "Love is forever," "You are a failure if you end a relationship," "Being alone is terrible," and "You should never hurt anyone." Also relevant are beliefs about yourself such as "I'll never find anyone else," "I'm not attractive or interesting enough," or "If I work hard enough I should be able to save this relationship."

At the deepest level are unconscious feelings which can keep you stuck. These feelings develop early in childhood, often operate without your awareness, and can exert considerable influence on your life. Children need to be loved, nurtured, and encouraged in their independence. To the extent that parents are successful in doing this, their children will be able to feel secure as adults in moving in and out of relationships. To the extent that these needs are not met their children may be left feeling "needy" as adults and may thus be more vulnerable to dependent relationships.

Strategies for Overcoming Relationship Addictions Robin Norwood, in her excellent book "Women Who Love Too Much" outlines a ten step plan for overcoming relationship addiction. While this book is directed toward women, its principles are equally valid for men. Stated here (reordered and sometimes paraphrased), Norwood suggests the following:

Make your "recovery" the first priority in your life. Become "selfish," i.e., focus on getting your own needs met more effectively. Courageously face your own problems and shortcomings. Cultivate whatever needs to be developed in yourself, i.e., fill in gaps that have made you feel undeserving or bad about yourself. Learn to stop managing and controlling others; by being more focused on your own needs, you will no longer need to seek security by trying to make others change. Develop your "spiritual" side, i.e., find out what brings you peace and serenity and commit some time, at least half an hour daily, to that endeavor. Learn not to get "hooked" into the games of relationships; avoid dangerous roles you tend to fall into, e.g., "rescuer" (helper), "persecutor" (blamer), "victim" (helpless one). Find a support group of friends who understand. Share with others what you have experienced and learned. Consider getting professional help. When to Seek Professional Help Some counseling may be called for when any of these four circumstances exist:

When you are very unhappy in a relationship but are unsure of whether you should accept it as it is, make further efforts to improve it, or get out of it. When you have concluded that you should end a relationship, have tried to make yourself end it, but remain stuck. When you suspect that you are staying in a relationship for the wrong reasons, such as feelings of guilt or fear of being alone, and you have been unable to overcome the paralyzing effects of such feelings. When you recognize that you have a pattern of staying in bad relationships and that you have not been able to change that pattern by yourself. Need Additional Help? Some books on addictive relationships are:

"Women Who Love Too Much." Robin Norwood. Los Angeles, CA: Jeremy P. Tarcher, Inc. 1985. "Is It Love or Is It Addiction?" Brenda Schaefer. U.S.A.: Hazelden. 1987. In addition, the Counseling Center offers free workshops and individual counseling to help with these issues. For more information, call the Counseling Center at 333-3704.

Copyright 1996 by The Board of Trustees of the University of Illinois

July 9, 2005
12:04 pm
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frayedknot
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EF

If you are getting involved with alcoholics, I doubt they cheated on you because you truly expected too much from them.. I don't doubt that they turned their problems around to blame you for their cheating behavior. Alcoholics are the masters of deceit, manipulation and justification. ALWAYS remember that... I'm making this point because I want to make sure that you don't have a scar from them whereby you think you are somehow to demanding.. I doubt that is the case. You probably weren't "enabling" enough for their comfort level..

You need to concentrate on recognizing the alcoholic "red flag" early on in your relationships. Trust your gut and remember the saying "don't expect different results if you do the same thing over and over".

I'm too shallow and must have a very beautiful woman for my alarms to sound. I guess I feel like her looks are a statement that says to others "I'm great.... look at what I've conquered". Pretty silly and insecure.... But, a difficult habit for me to break..

Frayed

July 9, 2005
12:37 pm
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exoticflower
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Freued. it is insecure I bet, as is saying 'look at the smart cultural superior guy I have conquered, I must be as good as he is'. Looking for validation, and what better validation that being accepted by someone that for either reason seems above us, we want to be worthy of their level...how do we go about finding our own level, showing ourselves what we are worthy of?

SD, I'm not sure if that is the thread I was carrying this on from, just a few days ago when 2b was having a hard time and I was...but for me it's ALL about love addiction sometimes. This article is really great, where did you find it? Anyway, thanks for posting it.

July 9, 2005
12:58 pm
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exoticflower
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freyed, that is.

Meant to mention, however, that I am really coming to terms with the fact that I can't make anyone drink, be unfaithful in a relationship, what have you. It's taken me years to even start exploring that possibility, but I am now, and it's nice in a way.

July 9, 2005
1:00 pm
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frayedknot
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EF

I'm not sure how we find "our own level". I have tried to date some people that aren't drop dead gorgeous but are cute and have something in common with me (advice I was given). Hasn't worked for me yet. As a side note, for some reason, the pretty ladies generally have insecure issues of their own. I'm just going to keep on truckin until I find the right person.. Maybe today will be that day.. If not, at least I'm keeping busy..... and, not contacting the ex...

Frayed

July 9, 2005
3:13 pm
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exoticflower
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Frayed! As one of those 'pretty girls', I must say you have hit the nail on the head...maybe there is something toxic in that combination?

July 9, 2005
3:53 pm
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EF

Many pretty ladies want "bad boys". I did a thread on that a few weeks ago. I'm looking for a pretty lady who doesn't want a bad boy. The ones I have dated seem to want chaos in their life. I'm really stable. Love having fun... loyal... etc. But, once they land me, the thrill of the chase is over. I guess?.. And, they crave that thrill.. The emotionally unatainable man.

The latest one I dated was the only one with alcohol problems. She's why I'm on this site... She is gorgeous and lives in a life of chaos. I was there "rescuing" her.. She loved it at first. Couldn't brag enough about me, etc. How good I am to her, etc. etc.. Now, she wants to be wild and wants attention from the droves of men... I guess. I don't understand why she changed her mind?

Frayed

July 9, 2005
4:02 pm
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turnabout
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Hey guys... checking in... been running around getting supplies and such. Nope, frayed, I'm sticking it out. No big woop.

I loved that article, sdesigns. That described my last relationship exactly. I knew it was bad for me, but I couldn't leave...then he dumped a bucket of ice water on me, and I was devastated. I still feel a little sad that it couldn't be meaningful on SOME level (other than as a life lesson). I thought we were great friends, and that was how I depended on him most.

Who are these people that keep telling us we are too demanding? I used to get that, too, EF. "You expect too much of people" or "You expect to me from me." I shrugged it off at first b/c I always thought I was an exceptionally reasonable person, but it eventually got to me. I kept lowering my expectations, but apparently couldn't get them low enough!! Even the last time I approached him hoping we could reconcile and communicate a little again, I bent my pride so far and all I wanted from him was an e-mail now and then... a little interest in what was going on in my life... and he tells me that he doesn't know if he can give me what I expect. That's when I threw up my hands. It's futile. The fact is these people don't really want to give anything to a relationship... just take, take, take. Who do they think they are?

Frayed, I tried to date b4 the breakup (we weren't officially a couple. we just acted a lot like one.) b/c I could see it coming. I wanted to beat him to the punch, but no one compared to him. Then, about a month after the breakup, I dated one guy for about 2 mos. He actually compared favorably to my ex in how he treated me, but the emotional bond wasn't happening. Then, I didn't date anyone for months, although I was looking and simultaneously got "involved" with an old friend. But in the last couple months, I've decided that I don't want to date anyone right now. Go out on dates, sure, if they come along, but I'm doing well working on myself now. I don't want a convenient relationship distracting my progress. It would just be a quick fix, and I'm looking for the REAL DEAL!!

July 9, 2005
4:22 pm
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Turnabout

Hunker down when Dennis stops by to visit. I will be thinking of you.. Best of luck..

I admire your strength to know that you need to work on yourself and are willing to put in the work.. I'm trying to do some of the same. But, I can't do it cold turkey.. I'm trying to: A) be comfortable being alone without being lonely. B) Develop friendships with the intention of not abandoning them when the "Real Deal" comes along C)I'm dating to soften the "lonliness" blow.. "C" would be my crutch during this process. I'm not going to get emotionally involved with someone who isn't the "Real Deal". I want my options open so I don't miss that opportunity... Here's my question.... I want the "Real Deal" also. I wish I knew where you can stand in line for that. I'm feeling like I have to keep dating and looking until I find her. My chances of winning the Lotto are small if I play. But, if I don't put my money in the Lotto, I can't win..

Frayed

July 9, 2005
4:30 pm
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Frayed...you said it yourself here "I was there "rescuing" her.. She loved it at first. Couldn't brag enough about me, etc. How good I am to her, etc. etc.. Now, she wants to be wild and wants attention from the droves of men... ". Perhaps these girls want to be rescued again, mayb e you go more for the 'damsel in distress' than just the pretty dame. YOu do after all get to be the person all of this bragging and complimenting and whoo-hooing is for. I admit, I tend to go for a guy who is going to take care of me, who is going to validate me and put me on a special pedistal and such (I have a bad reputation from my younger days, and men can easily tell it is an easy way to get at me or to me depending on the situation at hand). THe two must bounce off of each other--Pretty girls need it from good guys, guys somehow 'above' us and the jerks we've met that used us, and you good guys get the stuff you just mentioned, you get to be the knight no one saw coming that saves the day. And in the victom riddled end, we both get the same thing...oh, we where taken for granted, tossed for the next best thing, whirled up and then dropped down. Who where we to think we could be on their level... Of course, I suppose you could apply this formula to any relationship with two generic oversimplified types, though I think we tend to want to be such basic charactors in the begining of a relationship (feels safe maybe?).

Of course, maybe I am overthinking too. My daughter just went down and after baby prattle all day, I may just be running too far in the other direction in my mind.

Turnabout, this is exactly the point I am finally getting to, that throwing my hands up in the air feeling. What really gets me about ME though, is that I have been fighting and struggling and trying to bend into place some way to let him SEE these things, understand what they are, like I have to do it before it is too late and there is no going back. BUT-- It has been too late probably since the day he left the country when I was pregnant, the day he stopped calling to see how I was and started lying about his every drunken permiscuous act, which was so frequent. There has been NOTHING to imply to me that there is anything to be salvaged, save for occasional words (from a lier?) that no actions have ever backed up. And what is there to save? What do I want for MYSELF? He was right, I DID ask too much for him. I asked for what I needed, and that was too much, and that's that. And one thing I don't need is a man who runs off to get drunk and lies and sleeps around and forges new relationships every single time too much is asked of him. Where is this in any way desirable to me? What have IO been so scared to lose? someone I didn't have all of this time, and someone who hurt me often, someone who does not meet or respect my needs. And when I look at that list, how destructive is it of ME to desire that lack of respect, that sort of devalidating behavior, that sort of mentality? That's why I can't see myself dating for a very very long time--I need to love myself enought to respect my own needs first...settling for and even fighting for someone who feels I am not worthy of such, that they do not need to give that to me...well, that's a problem with ME, a big one. I did this to myself, and I can't put myself through it again.

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