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2b, in response to the 'how are you' thread (ef)
July 20, 2005
4:03 pm
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2bstrong
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Thanks SC! You beat me to it! Thank you for clarifying--not trying to make your job more difficult. Please, no need to say you're sorry--guidelines are guidelines.--2b

July 21, 2005
1:03 pm
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tracylyn
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I'm going to jump in here since kc brought up that I'd met someone from the site before.

At the time our meeting took place. The guildlines were not in place that are now. We had talked for months and months thru the site, ex-chained e-mails and then phone numbers. We met for lunch, very close to home for me. No air planes, no hotel rooms. Also, we were both female, both mothers, (no offense Frayed). I would be very leary of meeting someone of the opposite sex.

I'm feeling much like kc about the meeting. It sounds like loads of fun yet I wouldn't brave it for fear of the unknown.

I'd like to bring up something else for you both, 2B and Frayed. Put me in my place here if I'm out of line but I'm seeing huge red flags.....

Why the urgency to meet? Seems you are both getting the external "feel goods" that you so desperately need because of the situations you are in. You both name each other as being a huge part of the progress...but why? If I'm wrong then by all means correct me but the picture I see has codendency written all over it. You are feeding off of each other, dependent on each others words for that high that you so badly need right now.

Think about what I'm saying for a while before you respond. Really ponder the questions. I'm not saying this to start any drama....just perhaps giving a perspective from the view on the outside looking in.

Peace to you.

t

July 21, 2005
1:28 pm
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kc30
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Oh 2b

I hope you don't feel ganged up on, but I have to confess that Tracy has very eloquently expressed my exact thoughts on all of this. I've wanted to say something for a while, but haven't known how to approach it.

I hope you and Frayed will give her post some serious consideration, even though it may be difficult to swallow.

Lots and lots of love

kc

ps- T- My Libra doppleganger strikes again!

July 21, 2005
5:04 pm
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tracylyn
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2B, since you're on-line, I'm pulling this up.

t

July 21, 2005
6:27 pm
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2b ... please don't be upset over this thread, but I tend to agree with tracylyn.

For awhile now, everytime I read the posts between you and frayed, I have sensed that there might be a more going on than just the norm type of discussion on here - the posts sometimes include innuendos (or flirting if you will). Two people falling for each other on the rebound maybe? I just don't want either one of you to get hurt or be disappointed.

I might be totally off base, and if I am, like tracylyn said, please correct me. This is just the opinion of an outsider looking in....

July 21, 2005
7:24 pm
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exoticflower
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You guys, as the one who started this thread, I must admit I have thought the entire time that there is a crush of some sorts happening here...not that there is anything wrong with crushes between people who have shared a lot on a personal level, and I think you guys are both great, but sometimes I feel underfoot between your posts, or as though everyones posts on this thread have let back to the two of you exlusively exchanging ideas, compliments, encouragement...to be honest, I think it's sweet, but also something to concider before you all meet. Of ocurse, this is only one exoticflowers opinion, and I really don't want to alienate either of you, I just think that there may be some warmer feelings between the two of you than you may realize, and that you should at least take it into concideration...especially as you are both speaking of graduating from this site even as both of you have needed to lean heavily on it at times fairly recently for support. I don't think either of you truly feel like this site doesn't offer you as much as it did as much as you want to offer one anothers support more than is allowed here. IMHO, I can't say it enough, really.

July 21, 2005
9:39 pm
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Thank you for your posts. All of your thoughts and concerns are appreciated. You guys may be reading into things...I think there is a lot of comraderie and affection between many people here, men to men, women to women.--2b

July 22, 2005
1:15 am
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frayedknot
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Hello All

I said in another thread that I wasn't going to respond to this thread because I didn't think much of it was addressed to me. The last couple posts bring me in a little more..

First let me say that I appreciate your comments. I'm happy you care about us enough to go out on a limb and make some statements that may not have been easy to present to us..

I came on this site because I had a short but intense relationship with someone involved in alcohol that ended leaving me devastated. I have recently learned that being a child of an adult alcoholic left me with certain relationship traits. I have read every book available. I have researched the internet and become a sponge. I have learned my "core traits" and recognize when they rear there ugly head.. Knowledge is power and I have acquired a lot of knowledge in the past 2 months. I have spent years working on my physical body to get healthy. Two months ago, I promised myself that I was going to work just as hard on my mental health. When something is important to me.. I have a drive unlike most. And, my last relationship set me on that drive to mental health.

It's been about 5 weeks ago.... maybe 6 that I found this board.. As I read the comments above, I noticed a big change in me... The "old Frayed" may have been hurt by these statements because he didn't have everyone's approval. The "new Frayed" doesn't need anybody's approval to do something he wants to do. And, at the same time completely respect everyones opinions. Let me go on record saying I have no fear of 2B... Emotionally or physically..

When talk of this trip began, six people were going to attend. I committed to 2B that I would go. 2B purchased a nonrefundable plane ticket and made plans. The SC came in and put a stop to the communication. And, I respect the reasoning behind his/her position. I will keep my committment to 2B.. And, I WANT TO GO. I haven't heard anything from the other 4 who were going to attend. Not even a statement that they aren't going. I can tell you with complete honesty, that doesn't bother me either. I think they are all great people and I respect their decisions to do whatever they want and to remain silent if they wish.

When I first said something about a get together, I made the statement as a graduation. I truly don't see myself using this board as a crutch to live my day to day life until death do us part. In another 30 days (the time of this trip), I don't see myself using this site for my own comfort. I would love to be here to help others with what I have learned and will continue to learn.. Unfortunately, I may be forfeiting that "pay-back" to this board. That is a result of the decision of the SC...

I think way too much analysis has been done of this weekend. I was in public accounting for 6 years and spent a lot of time out of town with fellow employees whom I know less about than 2B. Just because I haven't seen her doesn't mean I don't know something about her.. I know more about 2B than I do some people I work with everyday..

2B and I have many relationship similarities that have brought us to this board. Those similarities have given us a close bond. We all have someone here that we feel "connected" to.. I think that's indicated in KC's doppleganger inference above. The nuts and bolts of the discomfort being felt by everyone is a result of 2B and I being of opposite sex. And, you feel we are weak and vulnerable. I can tell you this, I feel stronger about myself than I have felt in quite some time. I'm 47 years old.. I promise all of you I can take care of myself physically and mentally for a weekend.

None of my opinions above are meant to hurt anyones feelings or keep you from giving me or 2B your thoughts, concerns, ideas, etc.

Frayed

July 22, 2005
3:21 am
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exoticflower
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Frayed, what I shared with you is not recent to this trips plans, as I mentioned befoer I noticed it when you guys started posting back and forth on this thread...I just hate to see your determination to meet causing you to lose your posting privlages here on a site that I have ssen bring so much lately to 2b, and I am sure yourself.

Whatever you choose you are a couple of very helpful and wise people, I will miss your imput greatly.

July 22, 2005
10:25 am
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2bstrong
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I completely support Frayed's statement. I was pretty annoyed reading these comments last night. They ALL sounded very judgemental to me--judging our decision to meet; judging the depth of our connection by the length of time that we have been here; judging our discretion as responsible adults; judging whether we are ready to "graduate" from this site; judging our postions in our process. It reeks of judgement.

These are choices that each individual should be allowed to make for themselves. Making these choices, we will live with the consequences of our choices. As far the person asking about the urgency to meet...I don't remember who it was...what difference does it make to you? Everyone has different guages of what is urgent and what is not. People on this site are grieving the end of two month relationship that I am grieving the end of a ten year relationship. Again, judgement.

All of that being said. I have travelled all over the world. I have slept on a bench with a homeless person in a bus station in Dover, England. I have walked through the streets of Morrocco BY MYSELF. I am not afraid of this situation at all. It's my choice--and I'm looking forward to it!

July 22, 2005
11:43 am
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glittered when he walked
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whoa! who smacked the hornet's nest? Just kidding.

I can understand the SC's reasons for adhering to guidelines and I'm not going to judge those who do decide to meet.

(where you looking for a BUT here?) : )

I'll admit that as I read posts I sometimes find myself thinking, 'Boy I'd like to meet that person. I like the way they think and express their feelings and their overall outlook on life.' It's just that for ME right now, meeting anyone on this site would be counterproductive. Because I like having this site and really..hey..that's right I'm still married. ; ) But that's for ME. Please don't read into that statement beyone waht is says..'for me'

I will close by saying that I will miss 2B and frayed should they choose to leave the site

July 22, 2005
12:23 pm
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tracylyn
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2B ~

I want to apologize if you felt you were being judged. I was not judging and my comments only came out of concern.

The question regarding the urgency was not an answer I was looking for for me. That was a question I was hoping you would ask yourself. You are right, that's not my business. I was hoping you would ask yourself that question.

I'm going to take the road less traveled once again and ask you about your defensiveness and point out that no one's post sounds judgemental yet you felt judged. Perhaps you are judging yourself and your actions??? Perhaps you are defensive over your actions because we hit a nerve???

Again, I'm asking only to get you to think and be very honest with yourself. There are red flags. Those of us looking in can see them. Maybe take a step back for yourself and look in.

And please know that no one but no one is judging. I'm talking to you as I would any close friend of mine.

t

July 22, 2005
12:29 pm
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2bstrong
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Tracy--I always find it interesting that people freely use the term "defensive" to replace the word "assertive". My opinion (and key word here is opinion) of being judged was an assertion, it was posted after much thought.

July 22, 2005
1:14 pm
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tracylyn
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Point taken.

IMO - I find that when I truly feel good about my choices or actions then I feel no need to "defend" or "assert" my feelings to anyone. No need to prove myself to anyone as long as I believe in myself. As long as I believe in what I"m doing it makes no difference what others opinions or judgements are.

Again, I hope you know there were no judgements. Just my thoughts on how things were playing out.

I do hope you have a good time and wish you nothing but the best.

t

July 22, 2005
1:19 pm
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exoticflower
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Off subject, but Interesting observation, 2b, about assertive and defensive... there is a lot of wisdom there, something to concider heavily. I was raised not to be 'defensive' as exactly what you described here, any time I asserted my feelings or disagreements about any matter. that's really something to think about. Also, women in general fear being too assertive or defensive, what with magazines that once declared that boys don't like that, do a lot of us feel the weight of that now? Thanks for that interesting thing to concider.

July 22, 2005
1:45 pm
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Just Lost
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frayed, I was afraid to mention MCO after the SC stepped in. I was not aware that the meeting was going to be more of a graduation for 2b and you. I am nowhere close to that point in my situation. So, I am contemplating whether or not it would be beneficial for me. However, I want 2b's and your input on that before i make a decision.

July 22, 2005
1:47 pm
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JL,
That is how I felt about mentioning it as well... It felt like a very thin line to walk...

July 22, 2005
1:51 pm
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The trip was not meant as a graduation. It was meant as a support group gathering of friends. I know I said that at least twice in the above posts.

July 22, 2005
1:57 pm
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Oh My! What is happening here?

I am feeling so completely misunderstood! I understand that it is not a "graduation". When I said that I felt the same as JL, I meant that I felt afraid to mention anything about the trip, due to the fact that I may be "booted" from this site for doing so. THAT'S what I meant...

July 22, 2005
2:01 pm
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Hello everyone

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions regarding this subject and all others. We can all make comments on whatever threads we choose.

I know I have made my point as clearly as I can. I won't speak for 2B, but her feelings about this subject are crystal clear to me.

Some people have been a little offended about reading posts between 2B and myself. I will start a thread entitled 2B/Frayed. You are welcome to read and make any comments you like. If you want to avoid our exhchanges, you might want to avoid that thread...

I am choosing to drop this subject and concentrate in areas where people are asking for opinions and advice. As always, the rest of you are free to do as you choose.

Frayed

July 22, 2005
2:07 pm
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Sorry tc. You are absolutely right in your observation of the guidelines set by sc. I was clarifiying it for Just Lost.

TC--Did he call you last night? How was the rest of your evening?

2b

July 22, 2005
2:13 pm
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No calls last night.

I actually had a very good night. I cooked on the grill and me and the kids ate dinner outside on the deck. Then I mowed the lawn (at around 7:00pm when the sun wasn't so brutally hot). I watered all of my gardens and then took a nice hot shower when I was done.

I felt good.

Woke up this morning feeling a little bit sad that he didn't continue to call every hour... but I guess I am grateful that he is respecting my decision for no contact. I know it will be the best thing in the long run.

I have waves of sadness, but overall, I am feeling ok.

Thanks for asking 🙂

TC

PS...What's going on with the guys at the gym? Anything exciting?

July 22, 2005
2:32 pm
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Now that all of the fires are under control...for a while, anyway...

Good going TC. That sadness and longing for him to call will disappear. Just a word of warning--after I got over the fact that he wasn't calling me--EVER--I got really sad and started having memory flashbacks, and only started focusing on the good things about him. That was more painful than the thought that he wasn't going to call. I couldn't get away from the memories. It still happens, and weekends are still hard. I wish I could say I had exciting plans or at least a hot date for this weekend--but it's pretty much the same thing the next couple of days. I am going to a party tomorrow night--looking forward to it.

My young friend at the gym wasn't there on Wednesday. I was approached by some guy in a Wyoming t-shirt last night, He came up to me and said: "Are you _____?" I said, "Yes". He said, "I'm the guy who's been asking about you." (Insert theme from the movie Psycho here). Huh? Asking about me? I found out later he was pumping my sister for information. She told me he asked if I was single and she said "As single as a dollar bill". Thank you Emily. Thanks a lot! Next time, ask before you tell.

July 22, 2005
2:50 pm
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Hey 2B,

Isn't it funny how the unattractive "psycho" types have NO PROBLEMS being aggressive???? It makes me laugh because I told you about the Engineer at work that has been hanging around me??? Well, he's been at my desk today on 5 separate occasions (it's actually kind of cute. He walks over with some little slip of paper to talk about something that could either wait a month or tell something that I already knew). Anyway, he's been here alot today. He looks at the ground, appears nervous and laughs a lot! I KNOW he likes me, but he hasn't asked me out!!! He should have 1/10th of the "psycho gym guy"'s confidence!!!!!!!

Actually, my ex-husband may be giving him the evil eye when he walks by. That may be the reason he hasn't asked me out yet... Oh well...

I understand what you mean about the ups and downs that I'll be going through. The thing is that we haven't been a "couple" since April. We've been "broken up"... just playing the cat and mouse game, so I've gone through TONS of grieving over him already. I don't foresee anymore MAJOR breakdowns in the future. Just little mini breakdowns...

July 22, 2005
3:15 pm
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TC

I have this visual of one of the nerds from the movie with tape on his glasses and a pocket protector asking you if you have any pencils that need sharpening...

Is he cute? Would you go if he asked?

Frayed

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