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2b, in response to the 'how are you' thread (ef)
July 7, 2005
6:44 pm
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exoticflower
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2b, thank you. I think that seeing the way they behaved when something so devestating struck me, and I would have thought him too, and seeing the way I reacted to them at every turn, this may be the first time I can really and clearly see that there is no hope for anything but negative energy, and no hope for my own happiness without finding some sort of way to really lean on the peace and beuty from a higher power to keep myself hovering above its dangers..if that makes sense, it's a visual trick I have been trying lately.

Strangely, I feel fairly at peace in general lately. There has been no contact on my half, and of course non eon his, and honestly, no desire. I can't see how things could go badly in court, they are not bringing anything in (empty threats they could say I reacted insanely to later, they where just 'offering'-crazymaking), his mother is just obsessed enough with making him look good and not beleiving that he has problems that she is being middleperson via e-mail for my needs as far as documentation and such, and there are no problems at all--I am scared, of course, that they are up to something, but have to trust that a child would not be taken from her mother who loves her and cares for her immaculately under any circumstances. She is fed, clothed housed, loved, advanced in her learning, and now that he is not around emotionally baiting me at every corner, there isn't even anty franticness (which she seldom saw anyway), anxiety, I'm not even very scatterbrained. I feel like it took all of this terribleness to show me what toxic effect he was having on me, and like I am past the worst now, like I am coming off of the drug he was, coming out of the fog. I'm looking back and it is so uncomfortable for me, like recalling the recless behavior of my youth has always been, where I just want to shake and forget it, thinking 'what was wrong with me? How could I have let this happen, why didn't I see myself destroying myself?'. If that makes sense.

I have a best friend who is a Christian, and we both agreed completely that there was Negative and possitive energy, she called it good and bad, gods influence and the devils, and save for technical details, I believe the exact same thing...it's why we need a higher power, sometimes you have to accept that there is something that is simply TOO BIG for you.

As for my loss, I am getting by. I think after the innitial shock, once I removed myself from the negative energies around me, I could really look at things and and understand that this happens sometimes, and it is no-ones fault. I actually take wonderful care of myself, vitamains, light exercize, great diet...and aside from stress, I'm in great shape. I hardly ever even smoke or drink since my time with her father. I think I was putting blame on myself because no-one else could explain something like this, at the time I just needed SOME reason, however irrational.

At any rate, I am starting to think that you and I where bothserved up some negativity, as well as some others here lately, and did something really possitive with it. It shows that we grow, that there is strength to be found from others and from our higher power, and for me, anyway, reminds me why I working on me, reminds me that things where really dark before, and that I don't want it again.

July 7, 2005
6:54 pm
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exoticflower
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Oh, wanted to ask too, how did you find yourself coming out of the dark place you where ending up in? How do you feel now? I guess, I just wanted your run down after that big one of mine there...? I'm SO glad to see that you where just off getting yourself togeather and finding some hope, I was sure you where out doing one of the millions of things we do to destroy ourselves in those bleak scary times. ((((((2B))))), I'm glad, I really am.

July 8, 2005
12:21 am
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turnabout
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Hey, ef, I saw your post on another thread related to your encounter with the ex, but I never understood what happened? Did you ever say? Or is it too personal? I've gleened that some drama happened...

Well, if you have come out of whatever it was with some clarity, then that is part of your higher power looking after you. I believe that sometimes dark things are allowed to befall us b/c they will bring us to a brighter light. And how much easier it is to follow it when coming out of the dark!!

July 8, 2005
12:43 am
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exoticflower
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actually, turnabout, it's some pretty sensitive drama...theres a thread here about it somewhere, but I am just trying to sort it out and don't really want to talk about it. I lost a pregnancy I didn't know about, the visit was hell, they are still refusing to say that they won't try to take my daughter away (as insane as it is, it terrifies me, and I end up begging them like they have any emotional or legal rights to our situation...his parents are lawyers though, and when they can't hear he threatens me with it.)...really, the sort of Drama even we codeps wouldn't embrase...I am just trying to find some possitive in it and take what I can from it...I've actually refused to play into it once except letting them wear me down to crying to them to please not take my daughter...but that's about 10 minutes of drama to their one week of trying to draw it out of me...

2b was able to find some hope in a dark place recently, and I was hoping to get some feedback from her too...how about you turnabout? Anything to add? Any strength found in darkness? Please share!

Sorry, lousy feel bad drama this was, btw, I'm trying to think of something juicier to sooth the savage drama beast in all of us...I'll let you know!

July 8, 2005
12:44 am
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exoticflower
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Oh, misread that...I thought you said you could GO FOR some drama. Well, if anyone could, there it is...sorry. That must have sounded confusing.

July 8, 2005
1:26 am
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turnabout
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I didn't want to pry, but I thought I'd missed something in a post somewhere. I read about the miscarriage and feel so bad everything fell in on you at once. So sorry to hear that.

I'm in a good place right now... getting a lot of clarity. Don't know if I could explain it, really... how ironic, huh? But my last conversation with the ex (turnabout's bad week thread) made clear to me that I'm not even a real person to him anymore, and the thought that HE (of all people) dares to look down on me! ... well, I felt pretty indignant about that. LOL I have felt mostly calm ever since and think on him less and less. When I do, it's no longer with questions about how he could have done certain things to hurt me, but how and why I let myself be so undermined. I think that's a healthy, self-affirming, and empowering response to the situation. Thoughts of his betrayal or his current relationship aren't bothering me, even when they cross my mind. That conversation was a real watershed event for me. Something so simple after all of MY drama did it for me. Now, isn't that funny.

Sounds like you're making progress, too. I saw where you're using visualizations to help. I hope they help.

July 8, 2005
9:31 am
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Hello girls (guys!),

Thanks for the thread, exotic. Maybe you are in the calm after the storm? I still think it is interesting that everything happened to you in one weeks time. Divine, maybe?

I think the attempt to get custody is a control thing. Not that this is even similar, but my sister's ex has no interest and wherewithall to care for a child who is paralyzed from the waist down. When Mia (my niece) spends her time in Tampa, she stays with the grandparents who care for her, take her to doctor visits, etc. Well, now three years later the grandparents are getting tired, and he is finally agreeing to a custody decision for my sister. Sad that a child would be used as a way to control someone...I think you will be ok, exotic. I believe you will be the obvious choice for your beautiful daughter.

I am still in a fragile place. Turnabout said something the other day about romanticizing them, or something like that...and when we do that, that's when we fall back into sadness, longing, nostalgia. That is where I was this past weekend. I was blaming myself (again) for everything...for all of the times I was irritated or angry with him about something. I felt like the whole demise was my fault. I have got to get myself into a stable place of forgiveness and acceptance. I'm afraid I'm not there, yet.

The dark times were very scary. It started immediately on Friday afternoon when I got home from work. I could not get up off of my living room floor. I stayed there for two hours just hoping I would die. I'm sorry I'm being so scary here--just telling the truth. I finally got up and I think I took a walk, I don't even remember. Next day, the same thing. I went through the motions all weekend with no feeling and on Sunday I posted here in desperation. It helped a lot.

I refuse to take medication. I told my counselor the whole story on Tuesday. She told me to call her the next time something like this happens--extra support is good.

I guess the biggest thing I have learned is that there is no rushing this process. I am very impatient, and don't like feeling badly which makes me more likely to fall back into unhealthy patterns (calling, e-mailing, etc.)

That's pretty much where I am today. Any insight, thoughts would be tremendously appreciated.

Turnabout: You have helped me a lot with you wisdom and experience...How are you doing?--2b

July 8, 2005
9:55 am
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2B

Again... we are so similar. I'm going thru the romanticizing stage now. I only remember the good things and not the bad. I also don't want to medicate to get thru this. And, sometimes, I wish life would just go ahead and end. I think we all have those thoughts. Maybe we have these "dark times" because we are internalizing so much and working so hard to act "tuff", etc. Every once in a while, the internalized stuff just needs to be let out..

How was the gym last night?

Turnabout and EF

I always enjoy reading your posts and get strength from what you share.... thank you...

Frayed

July 8, 2005
10:14 am
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exoticflower
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Actualy, everything happened to me in 4 days time, really. These couple of days have been ok...therapist calling once a day, lots of reflecting, lots of going easy on myself.

That is indeed a dark place, I'm so glad you moved through it. I've heard too that there is no rushing the proccess...that there are no quick fixs, just doing the work and not skipping anything. Patience and faith...for as much as I don't use those things when I need to, they are always there to carry my through when not using them puts me somewhere I don't want to be.

I have to be honest, there is not calm right now, mostly just a heavy weight of saddness, but there is also acceptance. That is what I am happy for, I couldn't get to it before, and here it is, just came to me, hit me in the head after this--it's so over, he's not going to change, he has nothing for me and my growth, and I can stop hating myself for what I have lost. Beyond that, there is a lot of acting as if, which is helping, I think, just in my daily function.

No meds...can I ask why? I gradually reduced and quit mine when I was starting to figure out how to cope on my own and move foreward, I am not judging, I just wondered what for you it was.

I am so glad that you are where you are today, 2b, and not on your livingroom floor...I think we where all a little worried. How are you doing getting past the romanticizing stage?

July 8, 2005
11:17 am
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2bstrong
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exotic...I don't think I have a chemical imbalance. My depression is due to traumatic circumstances. I took Zoloft in 1999 for 9 months. It helped for the first 6 months. Toward the end, I noticed I wasn't laughing, I wasn't crying, and I didn't have a sex drive. So I took myself off of it gradually. It took about a month.

I have talked with my counselor about this. I would rather face all of my fears, doubts, and things that I have run away from for so long. Not that I don't believe in medication--I just want to try different therapy this time.

I am a workout fiend. I eat fairly healthy--I don't eat fast food at all. I do drink wine almost everyday. I know--some people would freak out about that, but I enjoy 2 glasses almost everyday. I don't drink beer or spirits at all. I like to think I am very European (ha ha-that's an excuse!)

I was worried, too Exotic. Maybe what is most frightening to me is how attached I am to this man and the life that we had. I do not how to begin to let go of it all. I really don't. There were issues in our relationship. But there are a lot of shared experiences, good times and bad. I feel that he just quit. Without warning. Without an excuse. I have been traumatized and I'm looking for comfort. You are so kind to me exotic (AND ALL). I get no understanding from my family. At least here we can express ourselves freely. I don't think I have ever felt comfortable revealing this much about myself in my entire life. Thank you with love.

July 8, 2005
11:24 am
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2bstrong
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Frayed,

I told my counselor about my episode on Tuesday, and I also told her that I almost called her but wanted to try and make it through on my own. She wanted to know why I thought I needed to go through something like that by myself. I couldn't answer...maybe because I thought I should be "tuffer" than that?

My man from the gym wasn't there last night. And, of course, I found out that he is moving to Chicago in a week. : [

Guess I will have to find a new guy.

Frayed, you don't live anywhere near St. Louis by chance?!

July 8, 2005
12:30 pm
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turnabout
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Hey 2b, ef, and frayed,

Isn't it awful, that romanticizing stage? Even though you try countering the good memories with truths about how it wasn't so great, the good memories seem to win out. I think it's more about us needing to believe in ourselves... that we couldn't be so unlovable to someone so important to us... than about them. I think that's what we hang onto.

Thanks for your kind comments, guys. I often feel like a know-it-all coming in here with my opinions on things. I think I'm just further along in the process than many here, but I've gotten so much out of hearing everyone's stories. It has really validated my own experience after the fact. Probably speeded up my healing, too. I was wallowing in romanticism, but I can honestly say I've left that behind... just last week. It's similar to what ef mentioned about her ex.. I got a cold dose of reality about how he sees me, and he sees me in such a way that I don't deserve and find unacceptable. I don't feel the need to think well of him anymore. I don't think ill of him, either. I just think he has been stupid, in a willful sort of way, and I don't have to excuse that anymore.

July 8, 2005
12:48 pm
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2B..

Sorry about the gym guy...... rats.....

In answer to your question... Do I live anywhere near St Louis?..... "Fraid not".. hee hee hee... I live in Jacksonville, FL. (Certainly a great vacation destination!!...) I would guess it must be 800 miles from St Louis?. One year I drove back to MN and went thru St. Louis. I'm from the midwest. Born in Il.. Lived in Ia.. Lived in Ne... Mostly, grew-up in Mn. I just came back from a trip to Mn.

I respect that you tried to tuff it out.. I wouldn't call my counselor if things were bad. At this point, I get more from this site. I'm very lucky to have a support group of about 6 that I can talk to about anything in my relationship. I have leaned on them many a time.

July 8, 2005
12:55 pm
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Turnabout.. EF

I hope to reach your point soon. People keep telling me that one day... I will see the relationship for what it was... I'm waiting for that day to come.... marking off days on the calendar. I hope I get some form of "shock" that will push me over the hurdle as it has you. Congratulations.. Thanks for shairing your triumphs and giving us some hope in this awful romanticizing stage....

frayed

July 8, 2005
12:58 pm
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Hey 2b - I'm so glad your okay! I said allot of prayers for you after reading your thread on Liberation Brew.
I'm so sorry that your still struggling with this - but don't beat yourself up over it. You were with him a long, long time and it's going to take a long time to get over it - that's only natural.
I am still struggling with my b/f - back and forth, up and down, constantly. I have woken up many mornings lately with panic attacks and then i'm eating carpet on my living room floor as well. I've prayed to die allot lately, but next thing I know, it's a new day and I made it through (not in a pretty way), but I made it.
Ihave been going to SLAA (Sex and Love Addicts Anon) meeting about 4 times a week and seeing a counselor once a week. I have found that when I am on the floor that the best thing to do is reach out to someone who understand and has been there. I have made so many friends that are "Love Addicts" just like me and so I can pick up the phone anytime, day or night, and they help me through the crisis. It's amazing and 2B - I strongly urge you to find a support group you can call on. I wish I could be there for you to call because I understand what your feeling and going through. My family doesn't "get it" and therefore they are really of no use to me when it comes to this phase of my life.
You will get through this - I promise. You are such a kind, loving and giving person and your Prince is just around the corner.

July 8, 2005
1:07 pm
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Dusty

What is a love addict? Don't tell me I have another character flaw to overcome!!.... hee hee hee. This last relationship (and the common string of others) has caused me enough pain that I have needed to learn about my tendancies, etc. I didn't know there was such a thing as Adult Children of Alcholics traits until a month ago...... I'm starting to feel like Bill Murray in "What about Bob"... LOL

July 8, 2005
1:29 pm
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Hi Frayed:

Here is the website for Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous. It has been a life saviour for me. Everytime I read the characteristics, I felt that they had me in mind when they wrote them.
http://www.slaafws.org

July 8, 2005
1:31 pm
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Hi dusty!

Glad to hear from you, too. What is it about getting on the floor? Is that a panic attack? I didn't even realize it. I think my counselor was going to say something about it the other day, and I said something else, and we moved on to another part of the subject.

I would like to find a support group. How did you find the love addicts group? Exotic said something about a gried and loss support group. I will call my counselor today and find out. I do need more.

I was thinking about you last night, Dusty. So you are working through with him? In your heart, that was probably the right thing to do. How is you b/f doing? Do you think your therapy is helping you with your relationship with him? I don't know about you, but I am managing three different life challenges right now. The first is the grieving process, the second is the recovery from the trauma of the way it happened, and the third recovering my self-respect. Sometimes it is all so overwhelming, that's when me and the carpet or the hardwoods become very close.

I STILL have not called him. I think about it constantly, but then I tell myself, there is no turning back now. Just go.

Dusty, I wish I could give you a hug. Thank you so much for the thoughts and prayers. I sure need them.

July 8, 2005
1:52 pm
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Hey 2B and Frayed... Can't I leave you two alone for two minutes without you trying to "hook up"???? Jeezzzzzzz!!!!!

I hate to say it 2B, but you're going to have to fight me for our friend Frayed!!!!!! He is a catch!

No, you really don't need to worry about it, I am not geographically convenient either (In Massachusetts)... oh well... Our loss!!!

TC

July 8, 2005
1:53 pm
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Hi 2B - I am working on me while still in the relationship. My therapist says that I am emotionally not strong enough to end it and by attending SLAA http://www.slaafws.org (they list meetings in your area); going to therapy and being around people who are going through or have gone through what I am, that I will eventually out grow the relationship. It's been hard - but I don't initiate calls anymore and am not quite as "available" as I once was. It's quite hard, but I am manageing.
I would highly suggest you read the book my Pia Mellody called "Facing Love Addiction". It's awesome and has been a real help. Also - you can buy the Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous Book on line (their website) and there is a chapter on the Withdrawl process (exactly what you are experiencing). Actually, if you look under the pamphlet/literature section, you can print out a article on withdrawl. It might help you to understand what you are experiencing. They say it's worse than someone trying to kick a heroin addiction because there are emotions involved - so please - don't beat yourself up. You are experiencing what is normal - it just sucks!! You will endure this.
I am continually praying for you and I think about you and KC all the time. We'd be awesome friends who enjoy wine! (I work part time at a winery in California - it's great!!)

July 8, 2005
2:13 pm
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2B and TC

TC Look out your window to the South and 2B look East.. The bright red spot in the sky is me blushing.... TC you are hilarious..

We kind of form a bermuda triangle.. It's nice to have a city/state in mind with your posts. I bet Mass is nice and cool about now. St. Louis is probably hot. Jacksonville is almost boiling. I'm going to the beach this weekend to cool down..

It would be really fun to meet people from this site. They constantly warn about giving out personal information. Maybe we could have a graduation ceremony when we get thru this stuff?? Florida is a great destination spot in the winter months..... hee hee hee

When are you going on vacation TC? How long are you going to be gone?

2B.. I thought I read where you finished a big project and were going to plan a vacation? Was that your post?

Frayed

July 8, 2005
2:27 pm
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Turnabout.--Sorry I missed responding to your post earlier. You have never come across as a know it all! is that even possible here? So, this romanticism is a part of the process? I hope so. I, ahem: WE should write a book after this.

Dusty--thanks for the literature info. I went to the web site and they do not have a sex/love addicts listing for meetings in the whole state of Missouri. I guess I will call to see if there is an update on local chapters. My counselor will know, too. You were reading my mind about the withdrawal symptoms. I was just looking this morning to see if I could find some info relationship withdrawal. That will be interesting to see.

Now Dustygirl, you have my dream job! I would love to work at a winery. I picture you as one of the gorgeous women in the movie Sideways...ah, the life.

I think I will have a bunch of 2b t-shirts made and start travelling around the country--anybody, if you see a woman in a 2b t-shirt, don't hesitate to give her a hug.

July 8, 2005
2:29 pm
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I am actually leaving in about 2 hours to go on vacation!!!!!!! I am leaving work, picking up the kids and going straight to the airport. We are going to Nova Scotia for 10 days!!! I am really excited to get away. It's exactly what I need right now... but I am going to really miss you guys!!!! I hope you'll still remember me when I get back!

Promise me you won't have any fun around here while I'm gone! I expect it to be "all business" No joking or laughing until July 17th!!!!

If I don't post again... BYE!!!!!!!! BE GOOD EVERYONE!!!!!!
I'LL BE THINKING OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

TC

July 8, 2005
2:31 pm
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TC--I just bought my plane ticket to Jacksonville for this weekend!

Frayed: I'll be wearing my 2b t-shirt, that's how you can find me! ; )

Actually, Frayed...I was just looking into air fare to Portugal. I would like to take two weeks, so I won't be able to go until the second week of September. Those are my tentative plans.

July 8, 2005
2:35 pm
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TC: Have a wonderful time. You deserve it! I will miss you.--2b

Come back with some good stories!

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