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Does anyone have an opinion about these scriptures?

UserPost

4:03 pm
January 22, 2010


Lillabit

New Member

posts -1

When i was depressed about my husband dying pastor gave me some examples of despondincy in the Bible. first being Cain. then David. then Davids daughter Tamar, Elijah. the Israelites.

Genesis 4:2 Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 in the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

Cain was so angry at being out of God's favor not pleasing him n jealous of his brother who did please God he killed him. the first thing i never understood is why fruits of God's earth weren't pleasing to Him, since all Cain did was give the Lord the friuts of his labor. specially since i thot they didnt eat meat till God imstructed them to after the Great Flood, when all vegatatoin had been killed by water. Now murder i understand. it should be wrong in any religoin or even to those who dont believe. its wrong. so I can see that. but i dont see why God took cains skill of tilling the earth. but protected him from persacution with the mark of Cain. that anyone that messed with him would be avenged sevenfold? was God letting Cain live a unproductive, exiled life a reminder to everyone as what would happen if man lets anger get the best of him? i welcome all opinions about this. Xtian or otherwise.

11:14 pm
January 22, 2010


CraigCo

Member

posts 39

(Lill)

You've asked for opinions as I used to, so here's mine:

First off, you have to understand that the Bible is based in mere myth. The proof IS out there! I wouldn't waste much time by reading too much into it.

The Bible is riddled with lies & contradictions from cover to cover. I'd leave the meanings & interpretations regarding specific biblical passages for the delusional folk to quibble about. They're geared for providing nothing but here-say & conjecture.

You'd gain as much useful info pondering the meaning of 'Pinocchio' as you would the Bible.

There are mounds of proof clearly demonstrating the falsities of the Xtian belief. You can find answers that are actually based in reality by looking into THAT type of info.

Thankfully more & more people are wising up every day. Cuz the 'madness' has got to stop before it ends up stopping us all.

C

11:41 pm
January 22, 2010


andii

Member

posts 124

The Old Testament is out dated Lillibit. It's not adequate in seeking rules to live by. Nor is it adequate for spiritual growth. I would suggest looking to the New Testament for answers, but you will find much discord in it as well, and for every answer you find, many questions will surface.

The answers to all your questions, those from the past present and future, are actually within you. Use the Bible as a guide, but not as a user's manual.

andii

1:26 am
January 23, 2010


Hepburn

Los Angeles, California

Member

posts 104

Hi Lillabit,

I agree with the others. Also I'm sorry to hear about your husband. I can't even imagine going through something like that.

Just gotta say I don't understand WHAT that scripture is supposed to mean. It makes no sense to me. I'm sure it could be translated a million different ways. And I also need to say this, I think your pastor could have used something else as an example to ease your pain. Nothing like a good riddle to comfort a broken heart? Sheesh.

Hep

9:16 am
January 23, 2010


Tiger Trainer

Member

posts 5

God instructed Adam to give the first born lambs of the flock as a sacrifice to represent Christ as the ultimate sacrifce until the actual death of Christ. Cain chose to disregard the Lord's instruction and gave a sacrifice of grain. Thus the Lord did not accept the sacrifice.

10:06 am
January 23, 2010


Lillabit

New Member

posts -1

Thanks everyone for your imput. Craigco, somehow I knew that would be your respomse!! Andi, thanks to you to. I know that the Old Testament is outdated. sometimes I think the New is too. Hepburn i agree that its confusing. you know, I listen to sermons n accepted what Pastor said. But when my questions came up… he had no answer. i know he tried but the Bible can be so vague. Like in Romans it says the wages of sin is death. Leviticus says an eye for an eye, whoever kills a man must be put to death. these are God's laws, but He didn't take Cain. Hejudged him n punished him yes.. but did nt put him to death. Tigertrainer thats an interesting slant on it. where is that?

i'm off for now. im taking my bf's daughter shopping… she has a Valentines dance to go to.

11:16 am
January 23, 2010


MsGuided

Golden Horseshoe.ca

Member

posts 104

HI Lillibit.

I'm just going to describe how i react, or what i think when i see those stories.

The stories are meant to influence humans.

Cain was a produce ( vegatable, fruit) farmer and Abel a Shepherd ( sheep farmer.

When the "lord" accepted Abels contributions in favour of Cains it was invalidating to Cain. Cains efforts weren't satisfactory because it wasn't flesh?

Abel had to kill something living and offer it to "God" so it showed how far he would go to please GOD!

Cain was shamed by god, felt "angry" and this was used to force his obedience. he was further shamed by being told if he isn't obedient and does what gods wants, unquestioning he is "bad".

What stands out to me is what this "god" wants from humans for us to gain his favour.

IMHO a God or Father would reward each brother equally.

But the Bible and Catholicism isn't about equaltiy.

These are lessons in obedience using killing and favour to instill this trait.

12:14 pm
January 23, 2010


MsGuided

Golden Horseshoe.ca

Member

posts 104

…..Killing the innocent and helpless ( a lamb or a small child) in addition to carry out a brutal act.

It just twists my gut!

It teaches humans to disrespect life? To kill outside of sustenance ( just for food)? I get that message also.

12:33 pm
January 23, 2010


red blonde

New Member

posts -1

First of all, I don't understand the correlation between Cain and Abel and grieving a loved one's death! I think the pastor was WRONG in doing so… It makes no sense! He could just as well as told you to 'tythe' to ease your grief.. for all the comfort given you.

That just angers me.

It reminds me of the argument I had with my older cousin priest… who told me to pull Momzilla's plug, when she was on a respirator, because it was the 'Will of God'… and asked him if he deemed himself so 'holy' that he is now presuming the 'Will of God'.

7:03 pm
January 23, 2010


Lillabit

New Member

posts -1

MsGuided i know. yuck. i think thats why we modernday Xtians ignore the Old Testament.. at least the more brutal parts. yes i still dont understand why a gift from God's green earth wasnt' acceptable to God. thats a comtradiction.

7:05 pm
January 23, 2010


Lillabit

New Member

posts -1

Red Blonde i wasnt sure what Pastor meant either n i didnt want to challenge him. i really didnt' have the strength at the t ime n it doesnt seem respectful. what i took from it was that I had been liek that for over a year and was sinking furhter in to my dispondency instead of getting better. i wouldnt get outof bed n i had been missihg a lot of work. not that he said it that way…. he said he had some scriptures for me to thimk about. what i looked at was Cains' anger. from that i went to depression. if depression is anger turned inward. so maybe thats what Pastor was saying. also to accept God's will, even though it mihgt not be what we want it to be. i wont ask him now what wirh all thats going on in the congregation. its been in an uporoar n i swear i didnt start that! lol. i might have added a little fuel…. but not toward him i really respect him. still. i have been a tiny bit outspoken about other things n i dont want to put more on his plate. not right now. i would hate for him to leave cos of all this strife. what he said to me at least got me to sit up in bed turn on the light and start reading. then i got up to my pc to look up possilbe explanations for the story of Cain. n that was good for me to do. to get up and start focusing on somehting else for a while. since i dont have kids i was sinking into my loneliness.

12:32 pm
January 24, 2010


MsGuided

Golden Horseshoe.ca

Member

posts 104

If I accepted "gods" will , as written within the old and New testament i may as well offer up my body to any invasion: rape, arranged marriage, putting my needs aside for others even if their desires are harmful to me.

Anger and depression are indicators somethings WRONG outside.

God is outside telling you you have to take what is dished out with out complaint?

He sounds like a damn corrupt Prison Warden!

Life is NOT a prison! But people seem to live that way. Take their 3 squares, follow the prison schedule, or suffer the consequences from other prisoners, the guards and the almighty Warden himself!

BAH!

5:32 pm
January 25, 2010


Lillabit

New Member

posts -1

oh my gosh. yesterday the sermon was about not getting what we thimk we want. Pastor told the story of Elijah. he said Elijah was of a man of power. who wanted great things for God… served the Lord courageously n yet who knew what it was to walk in this world right up to the very end of this life n not get what he wanted .

After he killed the folloers of Baal, n Jezebel threatened him he was scared. he ran to th desert n told God he was done. He prayed to die. an angel brought him food and he walked for 40 days till he found a cave in a mountian. hid til God called him out. He didnt wanna but God kept after him shaking the mountain with wind n calling to tell him that he had to go back and name somoene else to do what he himself wanted to do. God kinda put him on the shelf.. The only ministry He allowed Elijah was 2 pave the way for others who did the job he wanted to do. God didn't let him have what he wanted n when he was depressed n suicidal in the cave bout it…God didnt' let him be that either…. its' like he said to Elijah….. Im' enough for you Elijah. Im the only treasure worth having and im' the only treasure that cant' be taken away you. Elijah I am to be your vision. So Elijah went on and did what he did for the glory of God. He kept living. God took his dreams but let him live to do his work.

Pastor said when things dont' go the way we want them to … if we dont live up to some inner ezpectation we have of ourself or of God, we might get angry. if we dont' feel like we can express that anger then we stuff it n get depressed. how could i be mad at God? everything i was taught was that God takes those when its' thier time. zbut i did think i would be married for a long time, cos i was a good person n worked hard at my marriage. i did everything right n he was a good man. pastor told us that we get depressed cos we think we deserve better then what were getting. He told me that its' in the Bible that mankind deserves nothing except death for rebelling against the creator. When we think more highly of ourselves … like we deserve to be healed… deserve to be happy…deserve to have no problems… we'll get depressed. but if we consider ourselves to deserve nothing… then we can see all that happens to us as a gift from God.

1:10 am
January 26, 2010


red blonde

New Member

posts -1

Well, I don't buy that one bit.

1:23 am
January 26, 2010


red blonde

New Member

posts -1

Wonder if your pastor would get depressed if everyone just stopped tything and contributing to his ministry? Would he consider it the same way? that all that happens is a gift from God?

1:58 am
January 26, 2010


CraigCo

Member

posts 39

I thot andii wasn't religious? Sounds kind of like the ravings of a fundamentalist to me.

We can feel we deserve better without a fictitious God. That's the kind of deluded thinking that keeps people down actually. How blind are those that refuse to see. Claiming to have looked into it but, obviously haven't.

Biblical jibberish

lol (rb) Yea, stop tithing & see how quickly they'd loose interest in pumping any religious jargon at us. If it weren't for the money they brought in, no one would give a rat's ass about the whole myth. No basis in truth. None.

2:02 am
January 26, 2010


CraigCo

Member

posts 39

Oops! sorry, wrong person, wrong thread

9:32 am
January 26, 2010


Lillabit

New Member

posts -1

Red Blonde pastor has a job outside th church. so does his wife. He drives an old ford contour. works on it himself when it breaks down. Hes good with cars n he's been teaching some of the teens in the congregation to work on them. he has this old 68 dodge charger that hes restoring. the money collected from us goes to a fund for keepimg the lights n heat on in the buildimg. n for helping members when they need it. its a poor small church. no one could nake a living from the collection plate.

1:58 pm
January 26, 2010


red blonde

New Member

posts -1

Lillbit -

Is this your interpretation of what your pastor used in his sermon? If not, where did your pastor receive his theological training? Because what you have posted here about his sermon and the Bible 'facts'… much of what was 'sermonized' was wrong in parts. Elijah was a prophet… and other theologians have likened him as to Moses… and even Jesus himself.

2:04 pm
January 26, 2010


red blonde

New Member

posts -1

This is the story of Elijah that you should read… I googled it a moment ago… because your pastor's sermon was not as I had been (religiously) taught… nor have read in the Bible.
http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/article_elijah.html

2:57 pm
January 26, 2010


Lillabit

New Member

posts -1

Red blonde yes that is my interpratation of his sermon. as for his theological trainimg, id' rather keep it anonymous. I know the story of Elijah. How did you feel this accoumt is differet?

2:58 pm
January 26, 2010


Lillabit

New Member

posts -1

Red Blonde what religion or denomination was your religious training?

5:38 pm
January 26, 2010


red blonde

New Member

posts -1

Catholic, Methodist, Catholic… Non denominational…Gnostic…

Baptized Catholic before I died at birth.
Baptized at 5 Methodist when parents abuptly changed religions.
Baptized a third time at 22 Catholic.
Studied the Bible and other ancient religions and cultures/civilizations starting high school…because I wanted to be an archaeologist – still do and still read the Bible a fair amount. Certain 'happenings' all during my life have made me look at the Bible and study certain Chapters that I was 'told' to study..

I come from a very old family on my dad's side… both sides are totally Holy Roman Catholic… Both sides have had priests, nuns, Bishops, and one Cardinal… Dad's ancestor's migrated North (From what now is Israel) to Byzantine (Turkey) and suddenly became Christians and then North again into Russia. Family name is mentioned in Numbers Chapter 13. I have had 'Religious' training in and outside of the Church. And his family always had a Constantine and a Lucius in each generation.

My mother's family, I knew of my aunts and uncle and cousins and some of my second cousins…. not much about anything before them. Knew extremely little about my Grandparents… bits and pieces here and there. French part of my family were amongst the very early explorers of the Mississippi River and settle in So. Ill….. German part fought in the Revolutionary War… against the British… then went to Illinois with George Roger Clark and 175 infantry men.

As of receiving an annulment from my first husband (after 30 years!) I can go through some classes and be a "Catholic" again… if I so choose.

Right now… I would say I am Gnostic or at best very spiritual. I would like to think that God is the "force that walks with me" since birth.

6:31 pm
January 26, 2010


andii

Member

posts 124

You are correct Craigco. I do not consider myself religious. I do not adhere to a particular religion.

"Sounds kind of like the ravings of a fundamentalist to me. "

Statements like this say more about you than others. Statements like this are a reflection of who you are.

To make a statement that differing opinions are rants or ravings is often considered unintelligent babble.

Babble away Craigco. Perhaps those with differing opinions from yours will finally "see the light" i.e. YOUR way. lol

andii

8:25 pm
January 26, 2010


Lillabit

New Member

posts -1

Red blonde thanks very much for your responce. gosh you sound like some kind of Biblical royalty!!!! and you have had such a very thorogh religious trainimg. with a lot of deversity. a couple of years ago i did a Bible study with an area council of churches n i found it very fascinatimg n refreshing to have th different view points. how do you find the account of Elijah thet you refered me to different from wht i got from Pastor's sermon? is that article the way you were taught?


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