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The Female Narcissist – to all the guys

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4:29 pm
July 1, 2006


New Member

posts -1

I dedicate this thread to all the men who ever got involved with a female narcissist.

I always talk about N in the male form. so here is a article for all the guys

Let's Hear From the Guys…

"It took nothing short of a criminal mind to come up with the things she did. Her timing was always when things seemed great, often 3 days or so following my own expression of how glad I was that we were getting along so well. JUST when things seemed normal."

"The true female N is an emotional predator like no other. If one got you good the recovery is long and painful."

"Trying to get her to understand, empathize, or genuinely apologize for the pain she caused was an utterly fruitless endeavor – she could not relate to anything outside of consequences that directly affected her."

"Her reactions when I was writhing in pain were reminiscent of a Hollywood vampire's excited anticipation as she convinces her prey to open the bedroom window."

"The vast chasm separating that woman who declared such undying love &
devotion to me and the reality of what constituted her true agenda & behavior is perhaps the most difficult aspect to grasp."

"Confronting her on what she's done is pointless – it will only be seen as an attack on her no matter what the circumstances – and she will masterfully pull deception, denial, projection, gaslighting, deflection, repression, minimization & covert abuse from her arsenal of defense."

"I knew I had had enough when I came to the realization that I'd be hard pressed to expect such malevolence from a sworn enemy filled with hatred for me, much less someone claiming to be in love with me… after all, what might I expect if she were to ever become angry or dissatisfied with me at some point in the long journey that is life?"

"Promises are meaningless. Boundaries are non existent. Morality is entirely negotiable. Truth is subjective. And you won't know any of these things about her until it's too late."

"She may seemingly show strong emotion, especially when potential abandonment is on the horizon… but do not be fooled; if you truly examine the situation, you'll find everything she's 'feeling' either goes right back to her own selfish agenda or is simply a ruse to use your own sense of compassion against you."

"She's had many many failed relationships in the past, including a marriage gone sour. Of course, she convincingly claimed to be the victim in every one of these whose only fault was 'picking the wrong guy'. As best I can determine, she's never remained totally faithful to anyone – in fact, that's how we started out many years ago… my playing the part of the white knight saving this wonderul woman from such an abusive scoundrel – the latter role I've assuredly filled myself since our demise. "

"She'll generally keep 2 or 3 fawning admirers around called 'guy friends' that double as side and/or backup supply – and if you raise any objection, you can bet you'll be labeled as insecure, controlling and abusive to anyone within earshot. On the rare occassion she's momentarily caught out alone & single, she's literally in a panicked state – and won't hesitate to try & recycle old flames regardless of how tragic or painful the breakup. She'll turn on the charm full force in order to intoxicate you into her trance, but she can't keep that up for too long. Eventually, you will come to the painful realization that you were nothing more than an instrument of
self gratification for her, as easily discardable as a piece of gum that's lost its flavor."

"I forgave her lies for years and always tried to rationalize an answer for her. How could anyone who professed such undying love for me be covertly trying to destroy me financially, emotionally, reputationally, and any other way she could devise. My head told me many, many times to leave but my heart would always make me stay(so she could stomp on it some more) It wasn’t until I made up my mind to GET AWAY and started seeing things from “outside the bubble” that I realized that I had literally wasted ten years of my life. These people NEVER change. Make plans for your escape and never look back."


"Gentlemen, we are not the crazy ones! We are normal caring human beings and these very qualities have been turned against us. Living with a female N, especially a very intelligent and experienced one, is something for which our lived experience does not prepare us. I would describe it as living with a personality on a slow change fuse. All is fine until the N steps up the game and starts with the “big demands” that we as sane people attempt to “discuss”. The N considers that “love” = “getting what you want” and “listening” = “agreement”. There is no compromise. The only difference is timing.

How long is the N our “ideal mate” and when does the journey into devaluation occur? I would describe us as “expunged” males. We have served our purposes, we have provided what we can provide and the N devalues and finds another to value. This process occurs without our knowledge, of course. Honesty or integrity do not enter into it, it is all about what serves the N best. The entire journey through the “relationship” breakdown is a slow realization that the N has no feelings, no conscience and only a sense of entitlement. The N’s outlook on the world is supported perfectly by the legal system and do not fool yourselves, they know it. The sooner you realize that you are dealing with an N the better off you will be. Learn to play their game. Pretend to care, pretend to be responsive to their interests, talk the “reconciliation” game but do so only to gain information. Keep very detailed notes of every encounter so you can unravel the nuances of language that lead you to the lies and the documented proof of the lies. This of course means nothing in a legal setting but it means everything in preserving your sanity and in preserving the relationships with your children and family.

Hang in there guys, and understand that you are in a fight for your life with a very able predator. The best defense you have is emotional distance and gaining the support of someone the N believes is “hers”. If you have the support of someone the N thinks she “owns” then you will know the “truth”, however, the only truth you will know is that lies abound. Do not believe anything that has its source with the N, even if coming from a trusted source. Only first hand knowledge has any value. Above all, do not attempt to know the “truth”. Accept that the N knows nothing of truth and that you must disengage and move on. Keep the kids, write the cheque and move on. Create a set of rules for any contact with the N and stick to it. Tell people you trust to beat you mercilessly if you “break the rules”. Never forget, you are not dealing with a normal person, the normal rules of polite company do not apply. Accept it."


"Knowing what I know now I would have done things different, but how the hell can anyone know what they are involved in if they don't know about NPD. Like many of you I got so emotionally hurt and messed up that I started searching for answers for what happened to me, and here I am.
I am 99.2% sure she suffers from full blown NPD. I struggle at times about that other 0.8%"

"Seeing my wife and what she had become, it was like looking at the face of satan and being able to recognize the mask as such. If any one out there is ever confronted by a person like this, run, do not walk, run just as fast as you can.”

"I credit my therapist for the insight into my past with her. After 45 minutes of my first session he stopped me and told me to look up "Narcissistic Personality Disorders" on the Internet. He said that it should read like her life!! He was dead center with his observations!!! Now I know that I was not crazy."

"She showed all of the emotion of someone reading from a phone book when she was ripping my heart from my chest."

"I lost most of my net worth in two years with a female predator. So I'll warn you, the best thing to do is cut her off fast before she gets her fingers on your money and screws up your social life, family life, and mental health."

She laughed at the expense of others. Sarcasm was her only wit. I don't miss it one bit. Since she's gone the laughter has returned with a vengeance.

"My ex girlfriend said I was perfect. She made me feel so special and I tried so hard to make her feel loved. After the first year, nothing was ever good enough. On every holiday, she found a way to cheapen the experience and say it was my fault. It was like looking into the abyss. She did the most horrible things to me to make me feel like garbage. When she left me, she just acted like everything I did was nothing to her. It was my fault because she wants a man who will give her 80% of their time to nurture her needs while giving 20% in return because she said she deserves it, and intends to have it. Her lies were unnecessary and she never seemed to be able to have an indepth conversation about much of anything. I miss the person she claimed to be. The facade was so great. I dont know how what happened to her, but I wish I could find her again. I know its over, but god it hurts to know you spent two years together and it meant nothing."

"I realized that talking to my ex fiancee was futile. Anything she would say would either be a lie or so erratic that it would change in the blink of an eye. She could not be trusted. So, talking to her, or trying to relate to her, was an exercise in frustration and confusion. I have been able to resist talking to her, responding to her emails, or contacting her because I am absolutely certain that there is nothing she can say that I can believe. Anything she would say would just hurt me. Even if she said everything I want her to, I wouldn't be able to trust it or believe it. Even if she were telling the truth (which I firmly believe is impossible for her when talking about her feelings in a relationship — she is so damaged and disturbed that I don't think she even knows what is true), I wouldn't be able to trust her because the truth for her is so ephemeral, so capricious, so changable, that in a moment her truth becomes something else."

"She told me towards the end that she had someone else, then hung up. Then I phoned her back, and she denied she had said it. Just crazymaking behaviour."

"She had the most prodigious sexual appetite of any woman I have ever known."

"She cheated and lied and devalued me like a true psychopath – no concern for me at all. Now, after five plus months, she writes to me as if nothing happened!"

"First red flag: I met NP for coffee after matching up on an internet dating site. She was drop-dead gorgeous, dressed to nines, and appeared normal to a naive small-town guy like me. But looking back I can see that during that first hour together she talked of her past failed marriages and how she had been taken by her husbands. Of course, the opposite is true, she milked them for all she could."

"I'm constantly torn between bitterness-blame-anger and the desire to wrap my arms around around her because I feel so sorry for her. I'd like her to understand what loving and caring truly feels like. Yet, that's the part that can't happen because of the illness. It's all such a brutal shame."

"When I met my partner I said to myself that I would stick with her no matter what."

"The NP females are very coy and use past abandonment issues and need for a knight in shining armour to sweep them off their feet and rescue them from their "downtrodden" world. We, as caring men, tend to rise up to the challenge and promise them the world and more. I can't tell you how many people I told that marriage vows meant forever, that I would be the one. Well, I was wrong. These "damsels in distress" are as phoney as a three dollar bill. Once we are taken for granted they rail against us and the whole devaluation process begins."

"Before a I learned about narcissisim my self esteem was very low. I felt that anything that was wrong in my marriage was my fault. I realize now that while I am not perfect, that she was fostering that feeling within me. I let her use my own doubts against me. I enabled her to treat me badly and belittle me."

"I have to think back to the ludicrous impossible situations I found myself in when she was at her manipulative height. I have to think back to the utter frustration I experienced when she just toyed with me; all the bizarre behaviour that left me wondering what was real and what wasn't."

"She lied because she knew I would throw her out of the house if I found out. She likes to have two or more men going at the same time, knows that other people find this wrong, so she covers it up. The lying also adds drama, which makes the affair more titillating and exciting, and the other man more desirable. She often referred to "illicit" sex as the most exciting. She is about drama, and lying helps create and maintain drama. It is an aphrodesiac for her. The lies are automatic; she is so good at it. It has become habitual, part of her normal behavior. I think she is so psychopathic that she would lie even when she doesn't need to."

"When you've done your best and had been the best person you can be, time and time again, and still it's not good enough, that's when enough is enough. When you are rejected, demeaned, devalued when you've done your personal best, that's when enough is enough. When you put the N's need before your own to such a degree that you hardly exist anymore as an individual, woah, that's way more than enough."

"I have never experienced anything so damned horrible in my life. I can think of some major heartbreaks but I CANNOT think of anything so brutally confusing and demeaning as this. The sanctity, honesty, and openness we attribute to close friends was there for a short while… and then the rodeo of hellfire began. I've never been so screwed up from any relationship of any kind!"

"I married a psychopath and believe me it is not gender-specific. She kicked me repeatedly in the head with her boots on and otherwise displayed all the symptoms of psychopathy. I never touched her yet she assulted me repeatedly. Yes it really happens. In 9 years of marriage she kissed me briefly 4 times and rarely had sex with me but did with others. I am ashamed to play the victim- I don't like it. This woman was cunning ruthless unfaithful, thieving and a pathological liar. I have a wonderful wife now who actually smiles, kisses me and acts like a human being. She snapped me out of the shocking dependancy and gullibility and took me far away. Believe me psychopathic females are very capable of commiting atrocities akin to brutal wife beating and spouse abuse. More men than women statistically are psychopathic ( 3% against 1% of women). Lets not make it a gender issue. Females are quite capable of having this severe mental illness."

"When I discussed my female P with other guys, almost all of them had a P story."

"Nobody believed me… She got away with legally abusing my daughter physically and emotionally… I got sole custody but only after I had been completely investigated and scapegoated/stereotyped. One of the case workers wept openly at realizing her failure. They realized my daughter and I were telling the truth much too late."

"I alternate between feeling angry and sad. There are days where I don't even want to get out of bed. Twice I have told her I'm cutting off contact with her and I do not wish to communicate with her any longer. Each time, it lasted maybe two weeks before she'd email me or text message me again. And each time, I gave in. She talks about wanting to be friends. But I don't see how that is possible. I feel emotionally and physically drained…. so why do I miss her? Why do I think about her still? I feel like I've been on a rollercoaster, and I can't get off."

"Her defense mechanisms kicked in and she told lies to her shallow friends and family …she said "I was crazy" She has convinced herself that she is scared of me. She had called her Dad and convinced him that I was stalking and harassing her!"

"I am a logical person and I would agonize over what made her behave the way she does somethimes. Now I realize that there does not have to be a reason other that to justify anything she might want do. I used to believe that her behavior was my fault. Well it's not. And while I may suffer because of it on occasion, she is the one that ultimately have to live with the consequences or her words and actions. However, the most important thing I know now about narcissism is ….

I am not alone."


4:57 pm
July 1, 2006


New Member

posts -1

Sorry, forgot to say this article is from


5:22 pm
July 1, 2006


New Member

posts 0

Thanks Garfield for the smart materials you always provide us with. I actually believe N women are more scary than men. I've definitely come across a number of N females and I confess they were one of the most difficult people to deal with.

If you ever had a problem with them, it's always Your fault. "They are the most perfect people on this universe."

Love, Ras~

8:33 am
July 2, 2006


New Member

posts -1


N women are very scary, I agree. They are always very critical to everyone.

My grandmother has allot of traits. Sarcasm, not satisfied with anything, thinking she is the most beautiful women in the old age home (she is 88)

Gosh, the list is never ending



1:30 pm
July 2, 2006


New Member

posts -1

GOOD article and insight!! Hard to read because I know it well. Ann Rule has tons of non-fiction books about such characters. And just because I wrote the charmer/abuser thread to women does NOT mean that I don't know about the female version. I DO. I had two mothers just like this. One biological and one stepmother and one of my best friends for years (until I lived with her…) was a ruthless event in my life that did major damage to me and everyone else she touched.

Motherly instinct? Not in a million years. The cunning and the ruthlessness and scheming is in a league all it's own.

Malignant Narcissism by Sam Vadkin is good reading. Search it online.

Good men are so hard to come by, just like good women are. And it pains me to see a "good man" in the clutches of one of these women. I just scratch my head and go – Dude, what are you smoking?? Good stuff!

But there's lots of reason for it. We all fall prey at some point by people like this. They are sooo good at their charm, especially initially. But the price of the cookie goes up until there is no cookie, only abuse.

And one of the most horrible traits of mankind in general is that we like being lied to. We request it actually. We like the sales people, they are entertaining, the adrenaline rush is there, they play with our emotions, give us some kind of pleasure the "great deal"….or the "great con".

Once your emotions, your "feel good" mechanism gets going – they know they have you. And once you tell them all your hurts, your weaknesses, then they go about playing you to the hilt.

Initially we have no weapons against it and no armor. Hits go right to the juglar.

They feed off of you like a vampire and you just keep coming back for more.

They have found out that with cat urine for example, it actually has a parasite in it that draws the rats to them. Interesting, huh? Are there psychological parasites? maybe.

But the roots as to why we get involved in the first place go deep. We are usually bitten early by someone just like them and were a child and without a fully developed reasoning, critically thinking part of our brain in place.

A child wounded by one of these people will always initially think and believe that – it was their fault. They aren't able to think otherwise. So they go through their life trying to "win the old war" and make a person "like this" love them and accept them finally. It will never happen.

So you have to find the original lie, the root and "disbelieve it". Otherwise your instincts, like the rats, will lead you right to the predator.

Nope, don't hate you men at all. I love "real men" and I have a "real man". I feel for you guys just as deeply as I do for women in this respect.

But getting free is alot of personal work. You'll vomit up stuff for awhile and need to talk about it, put it up on the wall as I call it so "you" can see it and see what it's made of. You need to do this – have a storybook wall and see the innerworkings. Very useful.

You also have to be willing regardless of how old you are – to do the work. The vines and the webwork is around every vital organ you have and they have to be removed one at a time. Precise surgery.

You can't do that, however, by being in their presence. You will be sucked of all energy that is needed to do this by being around them.

Lay the axe of this connection and gasp for breath. You will find it. But it has to be a complete severing.

If you go back and back and back to a NP or psychopath – they hate you for it and disrepect you like no other. To them – you deserve everything you get because – you're stupid to them and very beneath them.

It's a shame I can speak like this about my own species but to me male or female – a predator is a predator. Just like with child abuse/sexual abuse – you don't hear much about what women do. And you should. They do it.

And my friend that I finally lived with was horrifying to me the games she had on her gameboard with about five people at any given time. She got bored if she wasn't playing at least that many at once. One would fall off the board and get away and she'd replace that spot in short form.

No conscience whatsoever but OHHHH how she was such a christian and holy person, God's own!! Blech!!! Satan's offspring is more like it. But it was nice cover and that one is used like crazy because people are so gullible and their brain goes to sleep once religion is introduced. OHH a psychopath CAN change!! When pigs fly they can.

They change their costume, that's about it.

Check out Ann Rule's books for sure. Very interesting reading and good luck to you, you'll need it. I don't write much here but couldn't resist this one. Find yourself – worthy of better treatment and get yourselves free once and for all. Use what you've been through as your book of wisdom. Don't hate it or yourself. No one knows how to deal with these people until you've been bitten and survived it. Just use your time wisely and "interview" women from now on and don't just jump in the sack quickly either. Time…….is your best weapon because a counterfiet anything can't hold it's glitter long. It falls off. And you need to be "able to" see it when it does. Sometimes it's very subtle but you have to be able to think clearly and not be all involved with the charm and the lust and the "good times". A person worth their salt won't push you or seduce you into anything and neither will they want you to tell them all about yourself in a short amount of time.

YOU interview them. Interesting concept. Learn to live by it.

12:14 am
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1

Garfield > Great Thread …………..

> I'd be hard pressed to expect such malevolence from a sworn enemy filled with hatred for me, <

and 3 years into her third marrage which took place one year after her husband died and to her lover she kept while he was live I got a wonderful Christmas card with a hand writen letter telling me how great I am. LOLOL I will not be The Monkey on the string !!!!!!!!!

Laddeska > "Lay the axe of this connection and gasp for breath. You will find it. But it has to be a complete severing. " Oh and some love a church full of unsuspecting prey……

I keep that card and letter and on occasion I run into it and maybe have read it twice and just scratched my head. Someday when I get a dart board. :)

Oh and yes-do interview. That is a wonderful concept.

12:53 am
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts 2


The grandmother you are talking about, is that your mother's mother?

1:18 pm
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1


The interviewing thing is a novel concept indeed. I tell people going on any interview regarding business, romance, any kind – to BE the InterviewER. Ask your own questions, have something written out about "what you want" and a checklist. Sounds brash or unreasonable? Actually no, is very stupid if you don't however.

People will fill in the blanks for you. And they will find out their own information "about you" if you're the one being interviewed and we have to catch that one and turn it around very quickly.

It's different being in that seat if you've practiced being in the other one most of your life. Takes time and effort and thinking on your part to reverse it.

Journaling is great because you see where you've been and can map out where you want to go to.

1:25 pm
July 4, 2006



posts 43

Hi Ladeska, nice to see you around.

Pre-romance interview to screen out narcissists and psychopaths? Interesting idea. I wonder if it would work. Maybe over the course of several days…Hmm.

1:43 pm
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1


"One biological and one stepmother and one of my best friends for years (until I lived with her…) was a ruthless event in my life that did major damage to me and everyone else she touched"

Its hard to realise that we get involved emotionally to people that has the same 'templet'(as Tez always says) than our mothers or fathers.

"But the price of the cookie goes up until there is no cookie, only abuse.

This is sooo good. I had to laugh.

"We like the sales people, they are entertaining, the adrenaline rush is there, they play with our emotions, give us some kind of pleasure the "great deal"….or the "great con".

Years ago I loved sales people, maybe bc my father had this charm before I saw through him. NOW I HATE them. Or shall I say I am VERY wary of them. VERY.

"We are usually bitten early by someone just like them and were a child and without a fully developed reasoning, critically thinking part of our brain in place.

I could not agree more.

It took me 2 years of 'vomiting' things up about my mother before I cooled down. Therapy saved my life.

Its been a year that me and my mother do not work together anymore. The progress i made would NEVER been possible had I been in her presence.

"Lay the axe of this connection and gasp for breath. You will find it. But it has to be a complete severing"

YES YES No Contact

Thanks for your reply.

Just wanted to add that I am female. I dedicated the thread to all the guys as there is so much threads thats just for women.



1:48 pm
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1


and 3 years into her third marrage which took place one year after her husband died and to her lover she kept while he was live I got a wonderful Christmas card with a hand writen letter telling me how great I am. LOLOL I will not be The Monkey on the string !!!!!!!!! "

This women is evil. Great to see you saw it in time.


Your guess is right. It is my mothers mother.

Worried Dad

"Maybe over the course of several days…Hmm"

Yes I agree. We might end up interviewing the MASK


5:22 pm
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1

Smiling at you Garfield. I kinda suspected you were female. But it doesn't matter, the truth is the truth and it's not gender specific, it's just that we seem to cut women more of a break because they are mothers. Can't call my two – motherly, that's for sure. They were the kind that eat their young.

It used to surprise me regarding how we are attracted to the same poison that bit us early on but it doesn't anymore. I understand it a great deal. Children don't have the analytical skills that they later develop. They are dependent on their authority figures in their household and taught to respect authority figures without question, especially the most charming ones.

We just immediately assume it's our fault, especially if we want to love them, need their support and guidance. What child doesn't need all that and are desperate to find it, work for it and beat themselves up if they don't get it. Rather normal.

So all those lies and fairy tales and all the other yuch, the compliance around you that you see other adults do holding hands with narcissists and psychopaths – does something to you. Confuses the heck out a child, that's for sure. Like Wha??? On one hand you tell me "this" and then on the other hand you do "that". Sooooo, which is it? Oh sweetie, you'll learn the game in time, just pay attention and do what we do.

So if the mask-wearer in our wearers in our lives early on – hurt us substantially, they are still marked by us as someone who we desperately wanted to make "them" in particular – love us. It becomes a real drive in us but very unnoticed by us. It's unnoticed because it's soooo buried and it's so fed the life it sucks from us each day that it grows and infects every part of us.

Then we experience earthquake after earthquake in life, foiled relationship one right after the other and we turn the guns on ourselves eventually alot of times and go – what is WRONG with you??? Go try it again and get it right this time!! Geeessh!! And………off we go, picking the very same people to try at last to win – the old war.

And the people we are waltzing with – don't have to be an exact replica of the one or ones before. They can be slightly different in alot of respects, but the same major foundational – yuch.

I crack up when someone says "But he is nothing like my father!!!" He is successful in his job, my father wasn't. He's a neat freak, my father was a slob. He's very charming, my father was very brash. Blah, blah. But what I zero in on in my conversation with them is – what's the outcome? The same with you? Same poison when you boil all the fat out of it or what?

They stutter, they stammer, don't know what to say and usually attack me and slam the conversation to it's – premature close. Just as I expected…

Dr. Scott Peck in "People of the Lie" says you will know them by the consistency of their inconsistency. Truer words could not be spoken.

The inner child driving our car – is the emotional self that got very stunted early and stopped growing. So the adult sits in the back, wonders why there are sooo many crashes and the child is driving on the wrong side of the road and picks up strangers all the time. Don't wonder. Tis no mystery.

It's called – low emotional I.Q. and it does not mean anyone is stupid or anything of the kind. It just means – what it says and we'd be wise to see it for – what it is and allow ourselves to grow up – without being pelted while we're trying, thus the reason for – getting AWAY from whoever it is that toys with ripping our heart out on a daily basis and then becomes our savior and sews it back in the next day and gives us flowers.

I don't associate with and don't want to know my family on either side for good reason. Most of them should be in prison for the rest of their lives for what they did to me and God only knows – who else.

The thing about interviewing is – it doesn't take long really. Once you know how to do it. But it takes knowing "where YOU are" when you are doing it, for one. You never go there when you are in a weakened state. Don't even think about it.

If you just got a big hit – heal first. It's just common sense. You don't go run a marathon on a broken leg. Duh!

Secondly, listen much…….and let the silence hang. Don't feel compelled to fill it in, don't give them rope, they will hang you and pull you along like a good little trophy.

There are just dead-giveaways. Like for one – if you say to me that you don't like animals or children – you're off my list, even as a friend. Don't want to know you and will avoid you like the plague.

I'm often amused by the psychopaths that have learned "having a pet" makes you look – empathetic. But if you really look closer (and you should…) you'll find they are a charm on a charm bracelet, just like you will become if you linger.

If when you are talking initially, they are giving you a ten-point plan of how wonderful they are and all their accomplishments and how everyone in their life has done them wrong, especially their "ex" – drop them.

For one, IF you're all that, you're content to let someone see it over time and there doesn't need to be – a sales pitch. For two, the story about the "ex" and how they were the most evil person on the planet, even for us who HAVE had those people in our lives – is another dead giveaway. Because these days – I'm just as responsible for taking the abuse and staying in it as they are for dishing it out. So you won't find me going on and on about how someone done me wrong song – anymore. I'm responsible, "too". I might tell you later, along the path, but not upfront.

I tell people these days in our transient society – run a check on them, any way you can. Because people can be whoever they want to be and how are you to be the wiser? In the old days, we lived in the same town, knew them, their families, ex's, someone who did know them, etc. Now, we don't. It's take it on face value. I don't think so.

And I don't really see anything wrong with telling them you're doing a check on them. Some will be super crafty and say – Go ahead….knowing it's difficult to do but difficult doesn't mean impossible.

Maybe if you've been so hurt in your life and you're low on blind faith, maybe, just maybe it's not a real good idea to get close to someone you can't verify anything that they say. I wouldn't advise it.

And hey, if someone is good in bed or whatever and you're willing to gamble with getting whatever it is you want and be smart enough to peel enough away from the super slime and web – more power to you. Because most people – can't do that so well.

People say to me, God!!! If I do all this, I'll end up alone!!! So? So what? The real truth of the matter is – we're born alone and we die alone. I'd much rather have the time in between be valuable to me to go see the world, or read a book in peace, or go out with friends, okay – do a little innocent flirting, whatever. But – have a good hold of – what's precious to you and every minute – is just that. If you don't guard it – no one else will.

Compromise is a bitter little pill. See it all around me. Well……..yea, I know he's unfaithful from time to time and yes, she's a bitch to me 23 hours out of every 24 but – she cooks good.

Geeesh, Louise and the price of that cookie is HOW MUCH???? Good stuff I guess. Was 50 cents for a bar and now the price has gone up to double but we're applauding it and feel priviledged for having been scammed so well. Anyone see anything wrong with that picture?

But, the nice home, the respectable facade in the community, church and family is obviously worth tons on the open market. A ton of flesh for……all this. Nice trade off.

I'd rather live in a grass hut than to be living with a narcissist or psychopath. But I do think it's in our nature to study what bit us initially so we "understand" it and that's very human and nothing really wrong with it except it's so sad how much life it steals from you. And sometimes we need to know when to "go" and not be so mezmerised by the flame that we burn our face off. It's a fine line. But without doing some study…..I'm not sure you'd believe anything that anyone could write or lecture on the subject. We read our own book, written in blood and it's alot more believable.

Then………we should use what we have supposedly learned and put it into action. Otherwise, we didn't really "learn" it, did we?

The vomit part is absolutely necessary. And people can only take "so much truth in" at a time. It's like serving steak to a baby. Bleeechh, up it comes. Cut it up, put in in the food processor, puree it and they might swallow a little bit now and then.

I throw alot of stuff at people early on, knowing full well that they can't handle it. But I often make them very mad at me and I know – they will flounce off. However, there's one thing about truth… sticks. Funny how we forget alot of painful moments, but the ones when someone really hit us with a 2 X 4, or really did something nice with no strings attached, even if – it was a few minutes in time….this moments stick and we remember them. We might not like them at the time, we might vomit and hiss and spit but truth sticks. It can be the double-edged sword that slices to the marrow AND heals or we can piss and moan about it and how AWFUL that person was for doing whatever for the rest of our lives. Meanwhile……..we take more crap from narcissists and psychopaths but – that's okay. They are going to "deliver" at some point and what goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas and I have swampland that is going to turn into paradise any day now.

Truth we hate, lies we adore and crave. Truthspeakers we crucify and burn at the stake and murder. Con artists – we admire and wish we could be more like them. Go figure.

But the predator/prey thingie – humans don't escape, just like every other part of nature. We are capable of escaping it…….but everything on the planet comes into this world armed to the teeth. We're not so lucky. We have a brain and God, whoever he or she is – I would think – expects us to make the best of it, orrrrrr we will give the planet back to whatever life is left here after we get through destroying it. People talk about Father God getting angry at us. I muse over the fact that Mother Nature – is just just getting ramped up and you sooo don't want to get her upset.

Good to see you Worried Dad. I hope your life is considerably better these days. You have a good brain though so – I'm sure you've moved down the road quite a bit.

6:17 pm
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1

Hello Ladeska:

I appreciated your comments above. Could you please elaborate on "interviewing?" I'm interested in hearing more about your checklist based on your experience.

"The thing about interviewing is – it doesn't take long really. Once you know how to do it. But it takes knowing "where YOU are" when you are doing it, for one. You never go there when you are in a weakened state. Don't even think about it."

8:11 pm
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1

Hi Moon & Stars,

I'll be glad to elaborate. First, I look at who pursued who and how fast and furious was it on either one's part? Most predators (but not all) have little time to waste, it's like the animal kingdom – wasted calories in the hunt, means you don't eat tonight. Too much of "that" and you starve to death. So the quick kill is essential to most of them.

The other 2% are your most advanced psychopaths and they enjoy toying with you and sharpening their skills and/or claws. So they can draw it out – a little bit longer and have more strength to outlast you. The diff between narcissists and psychopaths is that a N does what they do because they just want something and they are all that matters in the world. You are there – to only do whatever "for them". A psychopath enjoys hurting and torturing you.

Secondly, you have to be really honest with yourself as to "what your weaknesses ARE". Are you attracted to – blah, blah, blah and do your hormones take over your mind? Are you influenced by success, money, material things to the point it overrides faults – looking back on your experiences?

Do they want to meet you on your turf immediately or very soon thereafter? Are they too quick to become close to your family, friends and children? Do they all seem very smitten without alot of real knowledge of this person to back up that – smitten favorable attitude?

Do they want to spend every minute with you "too soon"? Is there alot of – I can't live without you, need to see you now, or how about very soon after "now"? I'm just sooo taken by you! You turn me on, blah, blah.

Is there a rush to diss your friends, your family and the like, especially the ones that have a bit of savvy and intuition going on and aren't so quick to be on their bandwagon?

But of course all this is done in the guise of – You know…..they really don't care about you like I do and did you notice such and such? It's the "subtle things" you need to take note of, the one thread that hangs and you are so quick to dismiss, or usually would.

Do they quickly become your protector, your guardian angel, a miraculous composite of everything everyone that's done you wrong – wasn't? Huge red flag.

Do they really "listen" or do you notice that their eyes are somewhere else like they are thinking up the next brilliant thing they want to say to you? You know the look. Think about it. I hate to talk to people like this and often stop in mid-sentence and just stare at them. Takes them a while sometimes to catch on and they go – Huh, what? And I go – no, go ahead, I can see you're thinking about whatever it is you need to say to me or ask me.

Don't give paragraphs for answers. Give one sentence or one word answers at first and for awhile. They don't need a book on why or what. If they are that interested, they can stay tuned for the "book" as it is revealed "over time". Predators lack patience, remmeber that one.

Do they have an answer for everything or do you notice that they sometimes say – I just don't know, still trying to figure that one out. Someone who has a ready made answer for just about everything is either extremely wise or a wise ass.

The person you really want to be with is someone who is a humble student of life. Always learning, asking questions, has the door "open" to new discoveries about themselves, life, you and beyond.

Do they want to sleep with you right off the bat? Do you find that tempting? Will your analytical side be clouded by that if it does happen? Be honest with yourself.

Good wine – takes time.

Is there anyone as time goes on that can sincerely vouch for this person and is it always the most "favorable" picture that is painted?

Can they take themselves not so seriously? Do they get offended easily if someone jokes or is a bit sarcastic with them? A confident person isn't so easily budged or provoked. Good self-control points to alot of other good qualities.

Does the "gentleman" stage last? Or do you notice on the 2nd or 3rd time meeting or dating that one or two things fall off the table in that respect? Nothing major but – he just didn't open the door for you this time, or she just didn't seem "as" attentive? We all know those little things that we just don't give much thought to, but we do think about them, it does pop up on our radar.

"The Gift of Fear" is an excellent book, btw. It goes into how to sharpen your intuition and to question yourself on "when did you know what you knew"? And how to act on your instinct "then" without a computer printout instead of later when the printout does you absolutely zero good.

Are you attracted to sales people? Is there an adrenaline rush when you are communicating with them? Do you like to gamble?

Can you ask yourself the question and get an honest answer as to – do I go after men, or if you are a man, do you go after women because of "the hunt" and the thrill of it, and maybe the challenge of taking someone from – the other party?

I've seen women do this time and time again and the men "claim" to not know what's going on and maybe they don't but – it's all about what's going on between the two women. The man matters little. One woman just wants to see if she can steal the man away from the other woman. Once that's done, he's overboard and on to the next challenge. It must mean something in the female language of – if I can do this – then I'm a superior female. Blech. But then again, it's not like we're not brainwashed to go in that direction at every turn.

Do you have times where the silence hangs and you can just hang out and it's okay? Or do those times hardly exist? Are they comfortable with themselves?

Are they from one end of the spectrum in being anal retentive and excessive compulsive in the way of being a clean freak or whatever, or are they way on the other end of being sloppy like a pig?

I won't go into all the body language stuff because it's too much to write but you can certainly do your own homework on that one. Invaluable information.

Do they over-compliment you? And yet at the same time, you hear them being extremely critical of someone else, passing by, or friends and acquaintances? Notice that one.

Are they easily impressed by other narcissists or psychopaths? See who their icons are. Who do they worship?

Do you notice sometimes that they laugh maybe when they shouldn't, or they give you empathetic words about something but you just "don't feel it" from them, or maybe they have no emotion at all over something that would normally stir anyone? Basically wierd emotion at the wrong time or the lack of it altogether.

Are they an "authentic person" or is their life one big cliche? Do they think for themselves? Do they respect YOU thinking for yourself?

And most of all, where are you in your own healing or life before ever going out to meet anyone? Do YOU know what you want and what you don't want? Have you written it down? Do you know your weaknesses, your strengths? Have you written them down? Do you know where you want to be in five years and are you willing to compromise your self-worth, integrity and life – to get "that"?

You really can't go looking, if you don't first take very good inventory of yourself and get that squared away. It's like going to look for a car or a house and not knowing what you really need, or what you can afford. Put yourself in front of the sales person in that state and they will tell you – what you need. Just like don't go grocery shopping – when you're hungry! LOL! Done that one……..

Where are you meeting this person and maybe "through whom"? Just something to ask yourself and there are a million reasons why, depends on your situation.

Can you accept being alone for years if the person you sketched out does not cross your path soon? Can you have absolutes on your checklist that you will not breach, no matter what?

And bottomline – do you love yourself? Are you – your own best friend? Can you say that your emotional I.Q. is where it should be? Or do you have work to do in that regard before you present yourself to someone that can outwit a child with their hands tied behind their backs?

Does this person also say or insinuate that you "complete" them very early, or it's our "destiny" that we met? Uh…….shy away from that one like smallpox.

And do you notice that they never really take responsibility for much of anything. It's all everyone else's fault, they are the eternal victim, and when they are storytelling "listen"….. Does this thread run through things?

And if you need a real refresher course on all of this just go pretend to buy a car. Go around a few places. Watch their M.O.

Not a long list, but a few things here. The best weapon you have is your own radar/intuition. And if you've beat that puppy down to a dull bark, then you might want to take it for a walk more often. (smile) And train yourself to "listen" to the little small voice and encourage it to be louder because you won't smack it the next time it goes off.

9:05 pm
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1

I'm just cooking dinner here and thinking some more about this, so thought I'd add a few more things.

It's very important to be an "interesting person" before you go and try to meet an – interesting person. By that I mean – sometimes we need to fill our own void. Fill our own cup so that when we do meet someone we are not doing what Kahlil Gibran in "The Prophet" warns about. You don't drink from each other's cup, but you drink the same wine and two pillars of the temple do not stand in each other's shadow or the temple will basically collapse. Good sage advice.

I hear so mmuch of the horror stories of meeting men or women in bars. Um, sooo what do you think you are going to meet in bars for the most part? Not to say – it can't happen but the odds heavily outweigh the cons of that happening.

Be about doing what makes you feel jazzed and alive. And sometimes we go through life never asking the question. Sad, isn't it? But maybe you need to go backpack across Europe. Maybe you are an artist and never gave yourself the chance. Maybe you're a fan of architecture and history. Maybe you need to throw everything you've been walking around in as "your clothes" and put on some that fit.

That's when you're more apt to "meet someone" when you are just enjoying your life, yourself, feeding your mind, having experiences, just enjoying doing that and other people at large and being an explorer. I mean here we are…..on this planet, we have so few years to live and we do what with it?

Dare to be who you are but you first might have to find out – who you are.

It was an interesting journey for me personally because the mold I was slapped in – being raised in the deep south is such a FAR cry from who I am it's not even funny. Southern belle? Uh, actually no, more like Annie Oakley.

Close I guess. Buffalo Bill is in my bloodline so who knows!?

Who you are will attract like kind "if" you take the time and the energy to make it priceless. It might take awhile and you might see a few frogs go splat on the window but eh, just hose them off. It's all part of the learning curve. And please do – be quick to forgive yourself and "learn something" from whatever failed or painful experience. Pain is a great teacher and not always to be despised.

People can learn so much in the classroom and then they have to do – lab time. Put feet to theory.

I had someone not too long ago ask me and my husband after being around us at a party – You guys talk???? We were like stunned. Um, what? She said it again. We answered…….uh, yeaaaaa, we do, whyyyyy???? Oh well, my husband and I never talk except to bark out orders or to to decide what's for dinner or to argue. I'm like – Ohhh…

She goes – I mean, it's obvious, you guys have deep discussions………

Yeaaaaa…… that against the law yet? (smile) You have to watch the thought police these days, so I needed to ask…..

But he's my best friend. He and I are like the mirror image of each other except he's male and I'm female and he's more analytical and I'm more intuitive and yet – we've taught each other quite a bit about our own skills.

I can be both actually. To a fault, to the point that you just want to smack me. Then again, he's read out libraries before and is multi-talented, a true jack of all trades and I'm jealous. Actually no, just extremely appreciative of what I see before me. He's a "real man" and even if we disagree I like it. Because I hope that whatever it is that's loose in my reasoning – becomes apparent through it all and I can discard it and learn something and vice versa for him.

If he wasn't that way, I wouldn't be with him.

I'm fine – by myself. I have a male cat that puts most men to shame. The sweet little guy tries to rescue me from my bath. Thinks I'll drown.

My other love of my life – (male cat) sat on the mantle above me while I talked to my father (son-of-a-bitch that abused me to hell and back) and did a deep gutoral growl the whole time we sat there. He asked – what's wrong with him? I said – He hates you, no sudden moves, okay? It was nice to see the perspiration pop out on his forehead but little did he or my cat know that one wrong move and no one could move faster than me.

I love women. Really do. No, not a lesbian, not that there's anything wrong with that, especially if you've been abused by men, but I just wish that………we'd do our own species a bit more – proud.

I look for very strong women and could care less if they agree with me all the time. In fact, I hope they don't. I might learn something.

But being soft and being a warrior princess can be accomplished and it needs to be done. It is a fine balance but a fine piece of any kind of instrumentation demands a very precise covering and encasing.

You don't come cheap and you your price is high and you have to go through inspection and, it's okay if no one knocks.

I lived with a psychopath man for a father for 18 years and thank you very much that's enough.

My time on the planet is worth just a wee bit more than that.

My man can match me and outmatch me alot of times. But I can do the same. He doesn't have the intuition I do and he knows it. By the same token I was busy raising a child on my own and tending to my wounds of child abuse so I didn't have time to do the things he did in his life either.

I demand respect and so does he and we give it to each other. Otherwise, we just wouldn't be together, it's that simple.

I have my talents and he does his. We compliment each other very well. I'm the first to go – Geeez, I'm an idiot, teach me about that! And he's the same way.

It's called synergy and it's give and take. I have my battle scars and they are deep but I took away from every battle – wisdom. About me and about others. Every battle is a book on the shelf that I refer to often.

And I never say I can't be had because I can. We all can be. There is always one psychopath out there than can pierce whatever armor at a most unopportune time so it demands vigilance from you. You never arrive.

But do stop to smell the roses, to take in the sunset, even if – it's "just you" doing it. You don't have to have a significant other in order to have permission to enjoy something.

My most memorable experiences, even spiritual ones were all alone. Same with my husband. Doesn't bother me at all. I think they are more precious when – it's "just you".

Have standards, know what they are and if someone dings the bell, fine and good and if they don't – oh well.

It's a crap shoot as to who you will really run into but if you don't "be about" doing what really lights you up and not just cruising online or in the bars, then chances are – you'll get whatever is on the discount or return rack. I don't do the "destiny" thing. How bogus. But you will never "get there" and find someone worthy, if you don't first be someone that YOU admire.

Make your wine the best quality possible and "enjoy it yourself". If osmeone else comes along and knocks on your door – fine and good. If not – you'd want less?

9:53 pm
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1

Wow…..amazing words Ladeska. Maybe Im seeing whats missing in my life right now. I couldnt pinpoint it. I wasnt sure if it was a person, a man maybe, or something I couldnt figure out. Until just this moment.

Whats missing is me living MY life. Finding my own experiences, tooting my own horn, finding my own inner joy, and rediscovering my talents and pleasures.

Ive spent all my life doing whats expected of me, or whatever I thought I NEEDED to do to make others happy. for me, what I want, what makes me feel good. No wonder Ive felt like something was missing. Something HAS been missing…for 39 years.

I cant get those 39 years back, but I sure can own the next 39 years, and appreciate every moment I have left on this earth.

Thank you,

10:31 pm
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1

You're so very welcome, Snow! "This" makes it worth it, me being here. I love seeing people "get it". Few do but that's just us humans. It's a toss up as to where you'll be when whatever is said or done that you may or might not "get". I always say that one doesn't have many windows open in life when they are receptive to hearing pretty much anything.

We're either too busy with our programming, being robots, pleasing others, being victims, recovering from victimhood, chasing our tails and taking another breath and putting food on the table that we don't take time out and go – Wha???? What's this all about, Alfie?

Well, it should be about quite a bit more than what we settle for. But that can only come from "you". No one else. You teach people – how to treat you, bottomline and if you don't navigate your life, rest assured, someone else will.

We have this "life" and who knows how many other planets out there light years away have anything even close to what "we are" and yet – we so often spend it examining our navel or someone else's.

Er, duh?

If you want to go see the pyramids or search for treasure or build a treehouse, or become a ballroom dancer at age 60 or whatever, um – do it!

And do it because – it blows your skirts up. If someone else gets off on it, thinks it's grand, well good for "them". But it's not a prerequisite for why you went on the journey in the first place.

The journey IS – it's own reward.

There is no gold at the end of the rainbow. Just a myth that someone made up so you'll work your entire life being – their slave. Trust me, have faith, (based on nothing) and "feel the magic". Uh, bite me.

The novel thing about us is – if we can think it, we can do it. It might not be in your life time, but why not lay tracks – there? What else you gonna do – knit booties?

Put "your wind" in "your sails". The world might be square, who knows…..for sure? You been up there and seen it from space?

Think outside the box, use your imagination, intuition, creativity, BE alive.

And if someone doesn't like it, they couldn't keep up anyways, so don't fret when they roll downhill and hopefully – down wind.

The road less travelled is always the one that the authentic person takes. It's when we lay an axe to – well…… should believe this because everyone else has……and you should do this because – everyone else does. And it's posh to be a robot and it's even more valued to be a slave so someone else can have the "feel good". Someone usually that you don't want to know in your worst nightmare.

Selfish? Ahhhhhhh, yes. But in a good way, in a healthy way. And there's nothing wrong with it and you don't owe anyone an explanation for it either. They made their choices about their life, you make yours.

No explanation necessary.

The thing about "getting it" like you just did is that you first asked the question of the universe, God, whatever you want to call – it. And when we do that, when we really, really, really want to know….I can't count one time I wasn't answered and so fast it made my head swim, so what does that tell you?

But if we cower, put our minds to sleep, aimlessly trudge along behind the other sheep and never challenge anything and never think outside the box and never really live, I don't know but probably a few plants could use your space better than you do, right?

Today, this moment is all you have. Yesterday is long gone and tommorrow may never come. Be IN the moment. Make it count for something. There is no one like you and never will be. You're an original so fill the bill, okay? Make me proud.

10:35 pm
July 4, 2006


New Member

posts -1

Er, no, correction – make yourself proud.

1:17 am
July 5, 2006


New Member

posts -1

I have been putzing with this since earlier today so I will Just Paste it :)

Here :O Ladeska-all

""I'm often amused by the psychopaths that have learned "having a pet" makes you look – empathetic. But if you really look closer (and you should…) you'll find they are a charm on a charm bracelet, just like you will become if you linger. ""

Oh and they will let you know that their Pet misses you to. LOL The very same pet that does not get any attention unless there is an audience or in hopes that you see them having a great time with their pet if you live near them. Dangling it for bait.

""I tell people these days in our transient society – run a check on them, any way you can. Because people can be whoever they want to be and how are you to be the wiser? >>>In the old days, we lived in the same town, knew them, their families, ex's, someone who did know them, etc.<<< Now, we don't. It's take it on face value. I don't think so. ""

And this is not even fool proof because the information source may – like that person and does keep wierd things they do hidden to give them a break. Not to mention that things can work the other way around and someone trying to catch a cookie may enjoy the attention that they get from creating information .

""Geeesh, Louise and the price of that cookie is HOW MUCH????"" LOLOLOLOLOL Oh I hear that one all of the time. They are a good cook-a nice person-good looking or Eeeeveryone loves them. Theeey Like You !!!!! OMG !!! Just hold the presses Right there………. That is a Beauty !!!!!! Oh – Geeeesh feed me a dozen cookies. :) I am going to hop around like a drunken easter bunny. Boing bbbbbbb That sounds like an enabler trying to set up a career victom with a date and it is usually said by someone I talk to who has Sellective hearing or just does not get it and they are being manipulated by a psycho just for amusment. Some folks think I should hit the brakes and put what I am after on hold just because they are having an emotional high for a few seconds and like I am really going to change the course of my life because they are having a brain fart ? Right

"subtle things" you need to take note of, the one thread that hangs and you are so quick to dismiss, or usually would. "

Yup-Yup. Where there eyes are or those sudden Dark Flashes in their eyes when they are expecting detailed info and you do give a short answer. Maybe even a twitch in their body language when you take a relaxed, grounded and confedent approach and turn the tables and be the info seeker.

Maybe watch for those tell tail signs of aggravation when they hit an emotional hot button with you and then they cannot Milk it to learn more when you change the subect. They are Fishing and you will see it……

"Do they have an answer for everything or do you notice that they sometimes say – I just don't know, still trying to figure that one out. Someone who has a ready made answer for just about everything is either extremely wise or a wise ass. "

Or stalling for time in hope of figuring out the answer you want to hear.

"Think outside the box, use your imagination, intuition, creativity, BE alive. "

Box ? What Box ? ;-)

"My most memorable experiences, even spiritual ones were all alone. Same with my husband. Doesn't bother me at all. I think they are more precious when – it's "just you". "
If its going to be it is up to me.

>>>Snow < You Got It. So much of what troubles us in our lives is either caused by Us not being the ME in our own life or someone else expecting us to act like what they are programed to act like. Dont be you be me.

We have to go one on one with ourselves…………………
Except our selves-Love our selves enough to kick our own butts.
No way can a person See what someone elses intentions are if we refuse to see ourselves and sometimes it is just hard to tell what someone is up to. :)

Garfielf> Great thread – and you should meet her sister. When those two got together following what was coming out of their mouthes was like watching a pair of ping pong balls get shot out of a double barrel shot gun in a cement room. They would jabber away about who to hook her up with next right infront of me and I didnt even have to interview anyone. I tried to bring up news about an old friend of mine and they said –Ooooo yah – him too. I couldnt figure out if they thought I was that dumb-didnt care – or just thought I was trying to be helpful. I couldnt figure out if they were N's/Psycho's or just Nuts.

Oh Well – They are History……………..


7:12 am
July 5, 2006

sleepless in uk

New Member

posts -1

Wow Ladeska; Garfield; WD; DTN;Snow; M&S; et al

I didnt look at this earlier because i kinda figured it was for guys to read but not not so……..

Ladeska you are really so inspirational and i completely echo what snow has said.

i need to read this over and over

thank you

7:36 am
July 5, 2006


New Member

posts -1

Bless you Ladeska!!

This was wonderful and another print out keeper to be read and reread. I wish you would put it all together in a book.

So glad that you are making appearances on this site. Thank you very much for sharing.

I would love to meet your cat :)

M & S

ps: I have read the Gift of Fear. Excellent and highly recommended, especially for women.

8:39 am
July 5, 2006


New Member

posts -1

Isnt it funny how when we actually take the time to stop and think about whatever situation we find ourself in, and accept our own responsibility in it, we are able to see, at least partially, a parting of the clouds?

Narcissism is PURE evil. Ive been surrounded by it my entire life. First my father, then my ex mother in law, and the most significant was the EX BF who I recently parted ways from after 20 years of almost constant abuse. It truly does cloud your vision, and make you question your own sanity.

But….I have to recognize MY patterns, MY part, and MY decision to either continue to allow it to happen, or make the changes within myself to truly recover ( i hate that word) and find a life that i live only for ME.

I think its all about self-worth, and as Ladeska so wonderfully put "thinking outside the box". You have to make the CHOICE to make changes, usually painful changes so that you love yourself enough to never allow that treatment from anyone again.

I choose to live my life with NO regrets, and that was a significant choice I made. if i waste my time wishing I had done something different, or made different choices, then i lose the opportunity to learn from those choices, and grow beyond them.

Its not always easy, or comfortable to reteach myself these life lessons. There are soooo many times i want to go back to my comfort zone of being the "victim", and claim no personal responsibility for the situations I find myself in. Im in NO way saying we havent all been victims at one time or another in our lives. The point Im making, or maybe just saying for my own personal growth is, you come to a point where you CHOOSE to not allow that person or persons to continue doing what theyve always done. If you always do what youve always done, youll always get what youve always got.

Like Ladeska said, we teach people how to treat us. Well, this woman will no longer be teaching the same lessons she always has. I accept that there may be a period of time where Im alone, and I also know to expect some critisism from those in my life who have become very comfortable with me being the doormat.

I think ive been waiting for so many years to find some "easy" solution. Nothing worthwhile is easy. it takes effort, sometimes blood, sweat and tears even. If it was easy, we wouldnt appreciate it.

I accept the challenge. If I was able to put sooooo much effort into trying to change others, trying to make others lives better, and trying to convince myself that someday love would be enough to make others treat me properly, then why on earth cant I put that same effort into MYSELF???

I can, and I will. If i dont love myself, and respect mself, then no one else will ever be able to, or should be expected to.


9:12 am
July 5, 2006

sleepless in uk

New Member

posts -1

Snow, you seem to have reached the point that I am aiming for right now.

You are so right when you talk about waiting for the easy soloution; I think i have been doing just that; or at any rate i have been avoiding making decisions because i have felt incapable of making good ones

But i get stronger and more aware each day that passes.

Bless you for sharing that with me

9:20 am
July 5, 2006

sleepless in uk

New Member

posts -1

well obviously not just me…i meant bless you for sharing that with US…


9:34 am
July 5, 2006


New Member

posts -1


As always, your posts are so inspiring and ring the bell of truth. It was your posts, and others about narcissism, which brought me to this site last winter, when I was still so deep in the N-fog and fighting to find my way out. I agree with Moon & Stars, you should seriously think about writing a book. Furthermore, I think it should be required reading for every teenage girl…


I can't tell you how much I love reading your posts and seeing the progress you've made the past few months. You and others here, me included, have made such huge strides in believing in and taking care of ourselves this past year. This is something to be truly celebrated.

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