Old-timer returns....with new relationship troubles - please help. | General Support | Forum

I don't think I have posted anything on this website in at least 3 years.  Maybe more.  For a while there, back in 2004-2006, it was only through the support of people here that I managed to get through some very tough times in my life.  I want to thank everyone here, for that.

To sum up my story, I had a LONG relationship, starting in 2002, with an emotionally manipulative man that left me doubting my own rationality.  I had no close friends, and I was terrified of losing this man – I was sure I would never find anyone who could love me, even though what I had with P was not love…

Even though I knew better, I moved in with P in 2008.  We hobbled along in our crippled relationship, the intimacy dwindling, day by day, for 3 years.  Right when I first moved in, a new student joined our dojo – and my heart did this funny lurch, when I first saw him….after getting to know this guy a few months through the school, I said to myself, "this is the guy I should be with."  But then I found out he had a girlfriend, was engaged, in fact, so I did my best to stop thinking about him.

Still, I couldn't help but notice how great it felt to be around him.  How much I felt I was myself, only better – prettier, smarter, funnier, around him.  How much I wanted to spend time with him.  He got married in the fall of 2009 – that really hurt, even though we were barely even friends – acquaintences, really.  Then in the fall of 2010, he started a soccer team – and asked me to join.  I knew spending more time with him would mean trouble for me – the way he looked at me, and smiled at me, made me think there was something between us, but I thought it was just my imagination, because I liked him so much.  So I began playing soccer.

His wife had a baby in the winter of 2010.  P and I were growing even more apart than ever – strange that was even possible….In April of 2011, P and I got into a fight, and the words were hanging in the atmosphere, that I wanted to say, needed to say, but couldn't – that we were over….P went to bed, saying it as late, he was tired, and if I was going to break up with him, could I do it in the morning?

That night I logged on to IM, and there he was, I'll call him N, on-line, asking me what I was doing on a Friday evening.  I don't know why I thought he would be there, but he was, and I told him I seemed to be breaking up with my boyfriend.  He proceeded to shamelessly hit on me.  I was totally floored.  Here was a man that I had had the absolute worst kind of crush on, for 3 years, telling me how much he wanted to be with me.  A married man.  A married man wiith a child.

We met the next day, and talked for 4 hours.  He kissed me in the parking lot.  I felt like I was in heaven.  He wanted to see me again.  I knew I couldn't let this happen, though, I couldn't go through with an affair, I couldn't be "that woman," so when we met again, I told him that he needed to be single in order for us to date.

Two days later, he told his wife he didn't want to be married anymore, and he moved into their basement.  I was beside myself with joy, incredulous that he would want to be with me so much, this man I had fantasized about for so long – it was hard to believe it was really happening.  We began texting and IMing each other, making plans for when we could be together.  We saw each other when we could – little snippets of time where the whole world seemed to stop moving, it was just N and I, and nothing else seemed to matter.  N made plans to get his own apartment.  And then he came home one day to find his wife sobbing into her pillow – the kind of grief you feel when you are losing the one thing you care about most in this world – the kind I feel right now – and he couldn't….accept the fact that he was hurting her so badly.  So he came to me and told me he needed to give his marriage another chance.  I could hardly blame him.  He told me later he wanted me to fight for him, but how could I?  I was the interloper with no claim to him…

He lasted 10 days.  I deleted his phone number, his texts, emails and IMs.  I tried to refrain from logging on, but I wasn't successful.  He wanted to be friends and still talk and hang out.  I said no, knowing how much that would hurt.  After a soccer game, he asked if I would come out for a drink, and he asked for a second chance – he said he didn't want to be without me.  I couldn't say no to that, to him.  I had cried for days.  I missed him so much.  He told me that he loved me, that he had never felt anything like this before, that I made him so happy, and that he would never change his mind again

And then, just like that, things were back on between us.  He moved into his own place in July, and I broke up with P – the thing I was dreading more than anything in the world, the thing that had taken me nearly 9 years to do, took less than 5 minutes.  P said, "That's it, then – we're finished?" and I said yes, and that was that.  Except we still lived together.  And my dog was dying of cancer.  Somehow, though, I muddled through the pain and loss, because I had N to keep me going – he could make me happy even when I was at my lowest.  I decided to buy a house – N and I went house shopping together and I found one in his town that we both liked.  I had to put my dog to sleep September 15.  P was there, with me, as he had known her for almost her whole life – and it was the hardest thing I ever had to do; but somehow, it felt like closure, a final end to my relationship with P, and permission to move on with N.  And then I moved out of the house I shared with P and N and I moved in together at the end of September.

Fast forward to today.  I spent last night alone.  N had been acting slightly distant, on Sunday.  I was frustrated with him, and told him I felt neglected.  He apologized, but then Monday morning told me he needed some time.  He didn't go to the gym with me in the morning.  He didn't text me like he usually did, every day.  He didn't stop by on his way into work (he works a 1-10 shift).  Last night he texted me to say he was not doing well and planned to stay at his apartment – something he hasn't done since I closed on the house – in fact, we moved most of his things here – his bed, furniture, dishes, lamps the day I moved in and he has been here ever since…  I signed into IM and said I was sorry and asked him what was going on.  He told me that what he was doing to his wife was tearing him apart inside.  That he was worried about his son's future.  That he tried to get over it, but it wasn't getting any better.  That being with me just allowed him to hide from his issues, rather than deal with them.  That maybe he needs to talk to someone. That he wouldn't make any silly decisions.  That he loves me and wants to keep making me happy, that he doesn't want to lose me.  And that he's sorry, but he doesn't know what else to do.

I don't know what to do, either.  I know I have glossed over the fact that we ripped apart his family.  I know it was a terrible thing, and I feel awful about hurting his wife, because she does not deserve it.  But I never dreamed I could feel this way about another human being – he makes me so happy, it's ridiculous how perfect we are for each other.  This is the kind of story-book love that words can't even begin to do justice – his eyes, his face, his hands, his voice, his sense of humor, his intelligence, his kindness – I love everything about him, and am totally content just laying next to him, our forheads pressed together, feeling the tip of his nose on mine…I love talking to him, I love doing things with him, and I love him in a way I have never loved anyone ever before.  I trusted him completely, even after he broke thing off the first time.  I swallowed my fear and put my heart in his hands because there was no holding back for me, not this time, not with him.

And now, what do I do?  Do I wait for him to make a decision?  Part of me wants to run – it wants to say, "You deserve a man who is whole, who can love you wholly, without conditions."  And part of me knows, knew from the beginning, that this couldn't really be real – how could I be so lucky? 

How much do I love him?  I want him to be happy and whole and in love with me.  But maybe that's not possible.  Do I have to tell him to go?  Can I be strong enough to push him away – the one man I have ever felt this way about?  I know he loves me.  But if loving me is destroying him, what else can I do but let him go?

Please Help.  This hurts so much.

Zax –

As one of the few, remaining "old timers" around here, I do remember you.  And I remember many years of your ongoing nightmare with "P."  How utterly impossible it was for you to leave him, despite his narcissistic ways.  How you resigned yourself to life with an unreliable, emotionally unsupportive & unavailable man.  An emotionally abusive man.

I am really glad to learn that you have finally broken free of P.  I am sorry, however, that you did not give yourself "breathing space,"…recovery time from P…before launching into a new relationship.  I say this without judgment, (for I have done the same thing):  you dove straight from one toxic relationship into another.  And that's usually gonna produce a sad result because it was an emotion-driven decision.  It was not in your own best interests.

Getting involved with a married man rarely turns out well.  These men — willing to cheat on their spouses — are generally not the solid stuff of which healthy relationships are built.  Men who juggle (and whine about being conflicted between) two women are not capable of genuine love.  Oh yes…they are big on emotional intensity, passion, great sex and lots of impulsive promises.  But not the Real McCoy. The movie, "Someone Like Me" comes to mind here, as a classic example.

The real victim in all this mess?  His child.  That remains an undeniable link, a lifetime connection for him.  His current choices and behaviors will have a lifelong, devastating impact on his child.  Not to mention the woman who trusted him enough to carry and bear that child.  Should he feel guilty?  Yes.  He should.  He has abandoned his child and the child's mother for his own selfish pleasure and emotional issues.  It is regretflul that he did not resolve these issues BEFORE reproducing.  Now there iis an innocent life involved whose needs should supercede his own.

I am sorry for your broken heart.  Unfortunately, the writing was on the wall with this one.  You walked into a relationship with a cheater, thinking that it would be "different" between you and him.  That he truly loved YOU…not this other woman.  Now you have been blown out of "magical thinking" mode and must face the truth:  he has feelings for this other woman, the mother of his child.  And (uh oh) feelings for you, as well.  She represents someone he loved enough to marry.  You represent someone who wanted him enough for him to tear apart his family…for a season. 

Bottom line:  Cheaters rarely stop cheating, something we have discussed frequently on these threads in Days of Olde.  In time, he would have cheated on you, too.   At this early stage, he has simply returned to his wife.  I sincerely hope you can muster the strength to kick him to the curb when he reappears (which he will.  All cheaters continue to return to the Scenes of their Crimes, to ensure that their victims are still "there" for him.)

Burn his clothes.  Sell the furniture and put it in a college fund for his kid.  And give yourself a Season of living alone, without a man at the center.  You are worth it.

You wrote, "He told me that he loved me…and that he would never change his mind again."   Think, Zax.  These are probably the exact, same words he spoke to his betrayed wife, to persuade her to take him back.   Does this seem like a trustworthy man?

-  Ma Strong

Post edited 8:39 am – November 2, 2011 by southgoingzax

Hi Ma, Hi Camer,

Thanks for your responses.  Probably, in time, I will come to accept that you are both right.  But for now, there are things I can't accept.  Yes, he cheated on his wife, but I also cheated on P.  Does that mean I will go back to P, to make sure he is still "there" for me?  No.  Does it make me a horrible, untrustworthy person, a "cheater" not capable of genuine love?  No.  It just means I did a horrible thing.  Just like N – he did something terrible.  He is not a terrible man.  He is a good man.  He loves his son.  His wife is a wonderful, kind person who did not deserve to be hurt this way, and I know he feels tremendous guilt for that, as do I.  I don't think either of us would have gone down this road if we hadn't felt as strongly as we did about each other.

We talked for a long time last night.  He knows he needs to sort his emotions out.  He says he needs to talk to someone, maybe get counseling. And he says that if we are going to be

together he needs to be divorced from his wife and he needs to accept what his

life with G (his son) is going to be like with him not living at home.  And he says that he can't string me along while he tries to figure out what to do.

I know he genuinely loves me.  I know he is a good man.  Just confused, and scared, and unable to deal with his feelings of guilt over leaving his wife and child.  I am not expecting him to come back, really, although I want that more than anything.  It's hard to quash the hope that he will get divorced, but I know how incredibly hard that decision would be for him; I know I have to move on with my life and not count on that ever happening.

So.  I'm grieving.  Big time grief over the loss of this relationship.  But I'm never going to doubt that this wasn't real.  It was magical, and amazing, and just so incredible in ways I can't put into words, to feel that loved.  I felt SO loved.  And I know he still loves me.  That doesn't make it any easier to move on, but I'm never going to doubt his love for me – I need to trust that my heart was right about him, that my heart can tell me when feelings are genuine, because otherwise, life is just clinical and sad.

I will try to move on.  I will try not to hope that he will come back.  He is moving his stuff out next week, while I am out of town for work.  I don't believe he will come back again, unless he is divorced.  And if he does come back before he is divorced, I will do my best to send him away.

Much love to you both, I hope you are both doing well.

Zax

Day 3.

I couldn't stop crying this morning.  I had to call my dad.  I am a total mess.  Not knowing what N is thinking, what he is doing, it makes me a bit frantic.  I am a 36-year-old mess.  Going to bed makes me cry.  Waking up alone makes me cry.  getting out of bed makes me cry.

I know I am wallowing.  If I stop doing this, though, then I have to start moving on with my life.  And moving on means acknowledging that he is gone and is not coming back.  Moving on means accepting that I have lost the love of my life.

People keep telling me how strong I am…I don't feel strong at all, right now.  I feel brittle, and about to shatter into a thousand tiny pieces.  I am not eating.  I can barely stand up straight.  I walk at a snail's pace, afraid that I might fall apart if I move any faster.  And I hurt, all over.

Oh dear god, I miss him.

How do people survive such heartbreak?  How do I get through this?

I'm glad you are working through the aftermath of this nightmare with a counselor.  It helps so much to get some professional, objective perspective when we are "emotion-driven." 

My deepest concern for you is the lifelong pattern of putting your OWN needs and Life on hold for emotionally unavailable men.  P was a narcissist.  He never gave you the comfort, affection and acceptance you deserve.  Narcissists are incapable of such empathy and human interaction.  N is a man with commitment issues…a man who needs the reassuring "high" of illicit sex with forbidden fruit…a new woman to rev up his confidence in himself as a desirable man.  I predict he will destroy MANY hearts, before his testosterone levels finally — mercifully — drop in old age.  You aren't his first conquest and I would venture a calculated guess that you won't be his last. 

I truly pity his wife.  She trusted him enough to enter into lifelong vows of fidelity & love, only to have those vows betrayed after bearing him a CHILD.  (In my book, having a man's child is a HUGE bond of trust and love.)  She has chosen to take him back.  I doubt that he has decided he needs to seek help.  I would bet the Truth is that his betrayed wife REQUIRED THAT HE PARTICIPATE IN MARITAL COUNSELING WITH HER, as a condition of his return.  Remember, Zax, that he has already shown himself to be an unreliable liar, sneak and cheat.  Hence, his flirtation and extramarital affair with you. 

This is not "love" on his part.  Love does not lie, sneak or betray.  Love does not abandon or waiver.  Love is not selfish. 

It is my hope that you will use this unfortunate (and painful) episode in your life to find the ROOT of these unhappy, unhealthy partner choices (wit the help of your counselor).  You deserve to be loved, but you are sabotaging your hopes for genuine love by hooking up with men who are inevitably going to wound your heart.  Break the pattern by finding the ROOT that has propelled you into these toxic relationships.

I realize my words may seem harsh, but my intention is to give you Truth from an olde lady's perspective who has walked a long road to gain these insights.  Having made more than my own, fair share of poor partner choices, I hope to spare you further suffering.  Took this old "hard head" clear into my late fifties to find my "root" and find happiness in the process.

-  Ma Strong

Day 6.

This was a tough weekend.  I am trying not to have obsessive thoughts about him.  I know that this is out of my hands.  There's nothing I can do to make him come back.  I just have to wait and see what happens, and hope that this all works out the way it is supposed to.  I am just so lonely, here in this house…I made a series of decisions that altered my life, and while I don't regret the relationship, I now am faced with the reality of those decisions. And I have to face my biggest fear – being alone.

I am so alone right now.  I have my family, of course – they are on a rotating schedule – I call my mom in the morning, my dad in the afternoon, and my sister in the evening.  I have one friend who knows what is going on.  But that's it.  I am sitting in this deathly quiet house on a Sunday evening and I am terrified that this will be my life – that I am, for some reason, doomed to be alone.

I know I am the same person I was last week.  I know that all the things N said about me are true.  I *AM* awesome.  I am pretty (although he called me gorgeous), I am smart and funny and strong and fearless and confident – although I am not feeling like any of those things right now.

N is coming to move his furniture out tomorrow.  I am leaving tomorrow morning for a work-trip.  I will be gone all week, which will hopefully help me to not obsess.  On Friday night when N and I spoke, he said he wanted to be with me, he wanted to make this work, and he wanted me to wait for him to figure his stuff out.  Today he told me it will all be ok, and that he loves me.  But I'm afraid he will change his mind again.  Sigh.

I know I was forming my life around him – around "us" and our future relationship.  And now I have to start over.  It hurts, but I am not sorry that I got to experience love.  I'm sorry I have lost him, for now, and maybe for good, but I am so glad that I got to love someone like that, and so glad that he loved me back.  For now, I will figure out how to live my life without him.  Maybe it's forever, maybe he'll be back, but I have to try to be ok either way.  Like N said, I am strong.

A Psalm of Life – Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
"Life is but an empty dream!"
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem.

Life is real! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal;
"Dust thou art, to dust returnest,"
Was not spoken of the soul.

Not enjoyment, and not sorrow,
Is our destined end or way;
But to act, that each to-morrow
Find us farther than to-day.

Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
And our hearts, though stout and brave,
Still, like muffled drums, are beating
Funeral marches to the grave.

In the world's broad field of battle,
In the bivouac of Life,
Be not like dumb, driven cattle!
Be a hero in the strife!

Trust no Future, howe'er pleasant!
Let the dead Past bury its dead!
Act, – act in the living Present!
Heart within, and God o'erhead!

Lives of great men all remind us
We can make our lives sublime,
And, departing, leave behind us
Footprints on the sands of time; -

Footprints, that perhaps another,
Sailing o'er life's solemn main,
A forlorn and shipwrecked brother,
Seeing, shall take heart again.

Let us, then, be up and doing,
With a heart for any fate;
Still achieving, still pursuing,
Learn to labour and to wait.

Hi South.   I just wanted to recommend a book that helped me so much when I ended my 25-year relationship with a toxic man.   It is called, "Women Who Love Too Much".   This book really helped me to understand why I was willing to put up with his crumbs for so long and to hold my head up and move forward with my life.  Ending a relationship with someone we love is hard and we need all of the support we can get.  

Coming here is helpful and I'm glad you are sharing your story.   You will be an inspiration to others who may be going through a similar trial.  Many may not post a comment, but simply read and draw from your strength. 

Wishing you well and sending you cyber encouragement.

((((((((HUGS)))))))

Curious

Post edited 9:54 pm – November 9, 2011 by ShiningLight

Hi (((Zax)))

I remember you well, hope you remember me. First may I offer deepest condolences on the loss of your dear canine companion. I have a dog in my life now and can barely remember what it was like before my waking and sleeping were ruled by his little iron paw. [insert dog-lover's eye-rolling emoticon]. I hope the dog-connection angels will bring just the right new four-legged pal into your life to fill that place in your heart again.

My heart goes out to you in your present relationship pain. I want to recommend to you the website that has been so enormously helpful to me, RecoveryNation.com

 If you check out the Partner's area there, you will find a lot of posts from [mostly] women who are rebuilding their lives on the basis of reconnecting to their own healthy vision and values. Although you haven't identified sex or love addiction as a factor in what has happened to you, you might be interested to read about it at RN. And the principles for rebuilding healthy boundaries and living one's best authentic life are usable across the board for anyone, I believe.

It's good that you're tuning in to self-care. I think RN can give you a lot of support and good information and tools to get to a better place, since you do seem to recognize that "waiting" for this man is not in your best interest.

wishing you the best,

hugs from your old friend kroika

I sent you a PM.

take kare,

kisses from kroiks

Oh!  I did this to myself!  I can't sleep, my mind is racing, my chest is tight, it hurts to breathe!  So many doubts, now, in my head – all because I texted him and he did not reply with his usual enthusiasm, and he didn't sign in to talk to me later, as he said he would….It's almost 2 in the morning now, and I can't get to sleep.  I can't think about anything but why he did not come back to chat.  Why didn't he text?  The obvious answer is unacceptable, isn't it?  I am torturing myself with these thoughts…I am so unhappy right now, so unsure of everything, of him, of me, of my own thoughts….

Right now I just feel like a total idiot.  I feel completely out of control and I don't know how to get back in control.  He would never have not come back after he said he would – he obviously doesn't want to talk to me.  Which means he's made up his mind.  Which means this is over.  Which means I will never really see him again.  Or touch him again.  Or kiss him again.

Of course I could find some other reason why he didn't text me later – I wasn't signed into IM – maybe he waited for me to do that.  Maybe his wife wanted to talk, and he couldn't text me back.  Maybe his phone died again – he was having trouble with the battery lasting for very long over the weekend.  But it seems to me that if he wanted to talk, he would have come back.

I'm not crying, but I really don't feel well. I feel panicky.  Big time.  I don't know how to stop these thoughts.  They just keep coming up, rolling up and over any rationality.  What is going on?  I need help.  I don't know what to do to calm down.  I can't sleep.  Everything is tight – my face, my chest, my legs….What do I do?  Anyone?

Grieving is hard work, and it can't be rushed.

I'm sorry your heart is broken. I send the very best wishes that it will mend. 

Take good care of you.

Day 14.

Everything still hurts.  Everything is wrong.  Saturday, he came to see me – twice.  We texted all day.  He told me he loved me.  Sunday, I didn't hear from him at all.  I signed into IM, and he sent me a message.  We chatted briefly.  It was awkward and painful.  I was sad and hurt, and he was clearly avoiding addressing that.  I don't blame him – he caused the sadness and the hurt.

I know I need to stop seeing him and talking to him, for my own good.  Even though I want him to come back, I can't handle the emotional ups and downs.  I need him to be here for me, emotionally, and he just can't.

I can't seem to stop crying today.  Not working.  Not doing much of anything but counting down the minutes to when he would normally stop by before work.  I know he won't.  But I can't stop my heart from hoping, even so.  I miss him so much, and want him back so badly, it's so hard to stop thinking that he will show up.

Day 15.

Suffering a bit today.  At least I am not out-of-control crying, but I feel like I might start, any second.  I'm alone in my hotel room, desperately wishing I had someone to talk to.  My counselor asked if I had told anyone – only one friend, as the others know him but do not know about our relationship.  My counselor asked, "maybe you should tell them – who are you protecting?"  I think I am not telling anyone because I still have hope that he will come back – and I still feel like I have a relationship with him, and therefore an obligation not to tell anyone before discussing it with him, first.  I have a feeling that if I told other people and it got back to him, he would not ever come back.  And I still desperately want him back.

Despite my anger, I still want him back. 

We haven't spoken since Sunday night.  It feels like I am dying inside.