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Is shoving considered abuse too?

UserPost

2:40 pm
February 21, 2004


Jodygirl71

New Member

posts -1

Yesterday I got into an argument with my husband about something stupid. And I was really feeling angry. So when I didn't get a reaction out of him I kept needling him until I finally got one. He yelled at me to leave him alone and when I didn't stop agitating him with snyde comments he shoved me into the wall. Not with tremendous force or anything but a decent shove. Then because I was afraid of letting him see that I was fearful, I continued on arguing with him in the same fashion and he shoved me again and walked away.
Later on I called my mother to talk with her about what happened and she started telling me about how that is physical abuse. Is this true? I always thought of abuse to be hitting, punching or some other form of extreme violence. I never thought of shoving to be in that same catagory. I am just so confused. I have a 3 year old daughter and I want to create the best environment for her. But in all fairness I was really agitating him with my comments. But I guess my question is, does this constitute abuse? Any advise you can give would be greatly appreciated. :)

Thank you!

5:03 pm
February 21, 2004


kmshull

New Member

posts -1

I have no idea whether shoving would be considered abuse or not. I do know that when I don't get the response I want from my husband, I will keep needling him as well until I get some kind of reaction. He'll tell me over and over that he doesn't want to talk about the issue anymore, that it's just an argument going nowhere, that I am looking for something to complain about, and even go so far as saying "This conversation is over!" But, I'm like a dog with a bone and I keep going with it and I know I antagonize him. In hindsight, I know I need to stop. No one likes to be attacked through argument, backed into a corner, etc. He has even said at times that he feels I back him into a corner. I don't know why I do it. But my husband is a thrower. He will throw things when it finally gets to the point that he doesn't want to hear me anymore. I know it's not any more of an answer than shoving someone. My husband's said there have been times he has been aggravated so much that he feels like he wants to hurt me. And please people, don't take that as an indicator that he has abusive tendencies! I know the feeling – where someone isn't listening and you just get to the point where you'd like to wring their neck. I would prefer he talk to me about it than do it! I guess you would have to weigh that situation you experienced against how his behavior is usually. Is be verbally abusive? Has he ever touched you before in an angry way?

5:50 pm
February 21, 2004


winyan

New Member

posts -1

I am new here. I am out of my last fun-filled relationship for 2 years and have been working on myself and realizing it wasn't all "me" anymore.

You asked about abuse? I think of it this way, anything unhealthy in dealing with an issue could constitute abuse. I do know from experience that I did the same thing. I finally had something I wanted to discuss, was blown off or my husband refuse to talk about it and I kept on and on, trying anything that would get any kind of response. Funny, looking back I cannot even remember any of the issues that had brought on these outbursts. It could have been me asking what he wanted for dinner and gone on from there, I don't know. What I do know is that it did not end good, I was usually hurt in some way (not physically) and blamed myself totally for whatever he did. This was my last relationship, which was my second marriage.

If I read your post correctly, you feel that since you were trying to get a reaction out of him in a conversation, that him shoving you was a result of you aggitating him? If your 3 year old was aggitating you, would you shove her into a wall? If you would, would you consider that abuse? If you would not, why? Or think of your best friend or "sister" or neighbor. Do we not all have disagreements from time to time? Do they have to end with the resort to something physical? I guess it is up to you to decide if it is physical abuse. But I can tell you my story of my first marriage when I had been shoved (of course I blamed myself for "nagging" or whatever). Then pushed down (again it wasn't REALLY violent), and then, two years later, when I was in the hospital with a dislocated jaw and finger-pring buises around my neck that resulted in my husband getting arrested for attempted murder (by the way, that was the only time I ever thought it was physical abuse). In all those cases, except when I ended up in the hospital, I was never really hurt. It was a shove, a push, no bruises, no hospital visits, and of course every time it happened I never thought it was physical abuse, because I did not look like the posters on the billboards for abused women's centers. I never had a black eye, a mark or a bruise prior to ending up in the hospital. And I always accepted his behavior because I thought it was MY fault, everytime. I took blame, I apologized, I ran the incident over and over and over in my head wondering what I could have done to be a "better wife" and not aggitate him so much. Guess what! There is nothing I could have done but taken care of me and my child the best I could and I DID have the right to get mad, want a discussion, want a response. That is natural.

On the other hand, I know many men that need time alone to mull over whatever the issue is, and then they can communicate better.

Don't know if my story helped. But if this is the first incidence, maybe it could open up to communication on how the two of you will deal with the next one. Maybe a "time-out" or you could let him know that all you want is communication…I do not know. But be careful, habits develop quickly and think of if someone you loved was "aggitating" you,would you shove them into a wall, twice?

Take care and be well.

6:07 pm
February 21, 2004


Worried_Dad

Member

posts 43

Many conflict tactics could be called "abuse" with a small letter "a." Domestic violence or intimate partner abuse is a PATTERN of using abusive behaviors to gain and maintain CONTROL over a partner.

Fighting about something "stupid" lets you express your anger, but does not serve any real function in a relationship. That is "abuse." "Needling" someone for the purpose of of "getting a reaction" is "abuse."

Your husband's shoving you, while a common reaction to "abuse," is wrong and constitutes "abuse." If he had merely "needled" you back verbally, that might be mutual combat.

If you make a habit of getting angry over "stupid" things, and "needling," i.e. hurting your husband just to get a reaction, then that would be a pattern of ABUSE.

If your husband makes a habit of shoving you, then he would be exhibiting a pattern of ABUSE.

Starting unncessary arguments is considered by law in at least one state to constitute "Mental Cruelty" and is grounds for divorce.

What each of you need to do is read Patricia Evan's books. Then make some agreements. Agree that you love each other. Agree that you want to be good friends to each other. Agree that you want to meet each other's needs. Agree that you when you have conflict that you will contend with honor.

Agree to mutuality in your relationship. Agree to not make unreasonable demands. Agree that there will be NO violence. Agree that you will be on good behavior when children are present, because they not only learn from you, but the emotional environment that EACH OF YOU creates affects them.

12:25 am
February 22, 2004


free

Member

posts 372

I like wd's comments here. Alot.

he should never have pushed you into a wall. Been to the wall many a time. You should have never needled him to death. Doesn't make you right. Doesn't make him right.

I'm really not sure what to say on this one. My own abuser would have NEVER turned and walked away. To me, that showed some control and an acknoledgement of crossing a line. No matter what I did, or what I said, no matter what I did not do, or what I did not say, I was heading for the wall. the line was gonna get crossed and it was gonna be "my fault."

When my ex monster pushed and pushed like you did, I did everything to get out of his way.

I will admit that there's a song and dance that goes along with an abusive relationship, but this doesn't sound like it.

He should have walked away BEFORE pushing you. And gosh darn it, don't needle somebody you love over, and over, and over again. That's cruel. Find a way to not do that hun. What you did may have been verbal abuse.

This is hard kuz I'm inclined to wonder if you are attempting to accept blame when blame is not due.

You know what's really going on. But it might be very hard for you to see it, acknowledge it. Believe it or not, nobody on the outside of your relationship has the answers.

You should not have needled him to death. He should not have pushed you. the two wrongs don't make a right. And they don't cancel each other out or make one okay.

What's certain though, is that the needling and the pushing must never happen again. this is fire. And it will rage given a little oxygen. Snuff it out NOW.

free

12:45 pm
February 22, 2004


Zinnie

New Member

posts 1

As ever excellent posts WD and Free.

Jody – shoving is abuse. It is just at the beginning stages of it. You are describing a very serious and dangerous cycle of games. You needle him to death, you WANT a reaction. When you don't get one, you keep on. He finally get's fed up and shoves you.

Next time… it can be a slap, or a kick, or a left hook.

Stop the cycle BEFORE it begins. It's the only way.

Z.

9:05 pm
February 22, 2004


free

Member

posts 372

Wondering how your day went Jody. Thinkin alot about ya.

free

2:56 pm
February 24, 2004


MEC

New Member

posts -1

Jody, shoving is abuse. But, since you were needling him, then he was just defending himself (legally) and you could be prosecuted for dv.

10:58 pm
February 24, 2004


free

Member

posts 372

I think you're off on that one MEC.

I've yet to hear of anybody prosecuted for dv due to needling, name calling, etc. As a matter of fact, not even sure there's a law against verbal and emotional abuse.

Physical aggression is against the law, hands down.

Self defense, I believe, is the use of enough force to escape. Anything more is not self defense.

free

11:53 am
February 25, 2004


Worried_Dad

Member

posts 43

I agree with Free on this one. If 911 had been called, it would have been the husband, not the wife who went to jail. The cops would have rolled their eyes, but away he would have gone.

Verbal/emotional abuse is definitely part and parcel of domestic violence, though….trust me.

Emotional abuse of children can get one into trouble, however.

I have been thinking…..It seems to me that most batterers do not employ severe violence or inflict severe injury, but they are batterers nonetheless and doo enourmous damage to their victims nonetheless.

Probably the canniest of them remain as close to just below the threshold of getting arrested as they can manage. So much of domestic violence occurs at "sub-criminal" levels. Too bad ther's no law against crazymaking. I wish we could live in a world where we are taught to be kind and respectful.

And by the way, has anyone else noticed that there is no law saying that children have the right to be loved? What a cold, tough world.

12:58 pm
February 25, 2004


MEC

New Member

posts -1

Ok, I don't know what states you are all in, but, I was a DV victim and I had "needled" my abuser. He went to jail b/c he broke my jaw, but, go off b/c I was the one who touched him first. So, that's the law in WA state.

6:40 pm
February 25, 2004


free

Member

posts 372

Sounds like his attorney twisted things around to make it look like self defense- he had to swing at you to get away from you, something like that.

I doubt the needling part is what got him off, but I'm not in Washington. I'm in California, where it was determined in the OJ Simpson case that just because a man kills a child's mother doesn't make him an unfit parent. That was actually said at the custody hearings, believe it or not.

It's not only a cold world we live in wd. It's Darwinian.

free

4:08 pm
March 3, 2004


braveheart

New Member

posts -1

After I was divorced, I attended a domestic violence group with a friend as support to her. One of the women mentioned several abuse episodes where her abuser pulled a gun. I felt myself go cold all over. Three years earlier I had ended a marriage of twenty-three years with a man who had not worked in seven years. I had to acknowledge that he continued to control me even though we were legally divorced. I did not date. He came to my house any time he wanted. (our son even let him in one night while I was asleep and he was on the couch sipping coffee when I got up) He controlled me because I was afraid of him and would not admit it to myself or others. Rages.
He would smash a window pane and say ,"At least it wasn't your face."
He had threatened to kill himself frequently when we were married. When that no longer worked to get my speedy compliance, he escalated to putting a gun to ny temple. I did not admit that this intimidation was abuse.
It had taken all my courage at the time of the divorce to leave. I had to relenquish my role as saint and martyr. I had to admit that my enabling him had hurt not only me but him.
Now I had to admit that I had been and was still a victim of domestic abuse. Once the denial was broken I began the recovery. I am now free.
THE ONLY PHYSICAL VIOLENCE WAS A SHOVE.


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