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I'm not allowed to see my grandchildren, anyone have this problem or advice?

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6:03 pm
July 26, 2005


vesper

New Member

posts -1

My son re-married and his new wife does not like me. She has limited my contact with my grandchildren for two years. I've tried everything and I'm at the end of my rope. Prior to this, I saw my grandchildren daily as they live with their father. My daughter in law says this is my son's decision–he won't talk to me–but prior to their marriage we had a wonderful relationship. Would like to hear from other grandparents and how they would or have handled this. The grandchildren are now 7 and 8 years old.

6:42 pm
July 26, 2005


mamacinnamon

New Member

posts -1

Vesper:

Hi! I'm not a grandparent yet, thank God, but I have a little knowledge to share.

You can petition the courts for an Order of Grandparental visitation. This was fairly new when I quite working in the legal field (10 years ago) but we have others here that might be able to answer better.

Most large cities have a free attorney help line, or maybe even online on the pc. Call and see what your state provides in the way of grandparent visitation.

I am sorry. It has to be heartbreaking to not see your grandkids as you used to.

9:28 pm
July 26, 2005


on my way

New Member

posts -1

vesper.
I agree with mamacinnamon. You do have the right to do this, or at least go for a consultation. In some states there are actually Statutes I beleive for grandparents.

9:49 pm
July 26, 2005


exoticflower

New Member

posts -1

Vesper, I don't disagree that it's SO important to try and keep family in a childs life no matter the circumstances, but I find it hard to beleive that everything was completely kosher if a decision like this could be made…people don't just randomely cut people out of their lives because they or another just don't like them. Have you ever had any disagreements about the children or anything else? DO you differ in how you think your son should parent? Is there anything you could do to try and better the situation in any way you may possibly contribute before you fine for Grandparenting time? That is extreme, a last resort, usualy. I don't agree with withholding children from family time, but i also don't beleive that people do things like this just out of the blue…misunderstandings, hurt feelings, poor comunications…to me running to the court system to force visitation before trying other aproaches first including taking their feelings into concideration and seeing how you can make them more comfortable…something that has alienated my daughters grandparents from me (not from her, mind you, but it has come close to me feeling that way) was their refusal to understand that ultimately it was OUR family, they would tell you to this day what a good boy and a good relationship they all had before me…becasue I had my own rules, I insisted he concider my wants before theirs, insisted that I, not his mother, be the woman of the house. Things went bad with their son for a host of reasons, but as long as they respect my boudaries and wishes and do not push me too hard in my own parenting, things are great between us. However, the second they do overstep their bounds, NO. Just a different take on it, ours is an extreme case but to some degree a woman of the house can feel threatened if you have perhaps leaned on your son to change something she didn't agree with or she somehow feels threatend by some sort of overinvolvement…it may be something simple and she just needs some help from you to feel comfortable having you around a lot. Or, maybe she isn't some lier, maybe it really IS your son. Just a few things to concider before putting a family through a court visit.

10:07 pm
July 26, 2005


simplyfrustrated

New Member

posts -1

Vesper – Not to repeat the people above but yes you do have rights. My mother in law had to go to court and get grandparents right from my husbands ex. Although we allow her to see her grandchildren she lives two hours away from us. Her schedule is so different from ours and we only have my step-daughter everyother weekend and one night a week, the courts did give her one weekend a month and one day during the week if she can come down and take her to dinner. She can come take her from 3:30 till 8:00PM. Reason she got this time was the courts believe it is imperative children know their family. Hope all goes well for you.

10:08 pm
July 26, 2005


mamacinnamon

New Member

posts -1

vesper:

I do agree w/ EF that you should try to work things out on a personal level first. But, if after attempt, after attempt, and after attempt things cannot be worked out then I do believe there are times Court is unavoidable.

Thanks EF for bringing that reminder of a personal level first. Great idea.

11:01 pm
July 26, 2005


exoticflower

New Member

posts -1

I t is not to say, mind you, that your Son and his Wife are right to withhold seeing your grandkids at all, just that miscomunication can happen in all sorts of sly ways, and also, so often everyone contributes to them, not just one person. The only thing you can do is look at where YOU may have contributed and lead by example in trying to work through it. It just makes me feel touch about my own situation and I'm sure i was projecting that at some points in my post. It also makes me think of a friend whos ex mother in law took her to court, it negatively effected them to the extent that they can NEVER have a comfortable or trusting relationship, and confused and hurt the children as well. Are you completely banned from seeing them, or is the contact just less than you would like? To bering to court a situation where you where involved EVERY day, I think that may be unfair. If that where me, I would feel it was a bit heavy, maybe she or he just doesn't want guests every day or just need to call some personal time, I think it is important for grandparents to respect the fact that they are that…grandparents. I lived with my father for a time after my baby was born and her father and I had seperated, and he or I spent nights elsewhere sometimes just to respect my right to be a parent and have my own family space, as well as his want to step back in his role as my parent so I could explore my role as one myself, something I hope we will always do. I think that grandparenting time is to allow family relationships where they are not existing, not to acheive the ammount a grandparent feels they would better like…sometimes you just have to let go and respect others boundaries, it doesn't have to ruin relationships with the kids or even take from it if it isn't the grandparents favored terms.

10:24 am
July 27, 2005


kc30

New Member

posts -1

Vesper
I am always saddened when I hear of adults letting their personal, grownup feelings impact innocent children.

Going from seeing them daily to not seeing them at all is not only hard on you, but would be very confusing to them.

What happened to precipitate this change? It's unlikely that it happened with no explanation…has there been escalating tension between you and his new wife?

It would be hard to counsel how best to proceed without an understanding of why your son would cut you out like that, but I would definitely say the best thing for everyone, especially the children, would be to work out the differences with the grownups without the court's assistance.

A court order would probably create even more tension and animosity between them and you…not a healthy place for children to be caught in.

Hoping you can provide more information.

kc

10:59 am
July 27, 2005


exoticflower

New Member

posts -1

Of course, this has alsom been tha case for two years now…it is important to ease back in as well, I am sure as yit should have been to have that lessened time gradually cut back on if the arents felt a need.

6:28 pm
July 27, 2005


vesper

New Member

posts -1

I hope I'm using the right venue as this is my first time to use this site. Thanks for all the advice. Your answers brought tears to my eyes to know that someone did respond! This is a 2 year long story, but to state it briefly…my son and I had a thriving business together so we worked together on a daily basis and lived next door. When he remarried, I thought very highly of her and was supportive of his decision. After the marriage, we are talking 3 days later, I was told by my son that the rules had changed. I was no longer allowed to come to their home freely, nor were the kids allowed to come to my house without their permission. You have to understand because they did not see their bio mom, I had taken on that role at my son's request. I got them up in the morning and ready for day care and put them to bed at night. This new rule was hard for me but I accepted it. Her explanation–the kids were bonded too much to me and they never would to her if I didn't get out of the picture. Yes this was confusing to a 4 & 5 year old who had lost their mom. To cut to the chase, I moved to give them space. My son and his wife tried to take the business away from me, this ended in court mediation with me allowing him to have part of the business I had founded. He used the children as a hold over me to give him what he wanted–ie I would not see my grandchildren if I interfered with the business. This was 2 years ago. I am allowed to see them about 4 times a year under their supervision when they aren't mad at me about something–not usually relating to the children. The last time was on the front porch for 30 min for my grandson's birthday!

I have thought about court. I wasn't sure that grandparents had rights after the last case in Washington. I agree with Exoticfl, if I take this to court, how lasting will the damages be to my relationship with my son? I have put this off for two years hoping that things would get better. I've offered to pay for counseling, etc.

7:14 pm
July 27, 2005


exoticflower

New Member

posts -1

I can see their inital discomfort, and their original point was valid, but WOW. Talk about extreme! I can't imagine, on his birthday you had to stay on the porch? FOr 20 minutes? That's just crazy! Maybe you would be right to take it to court, or at least to try and set up some family mediation to talk it out with them and let them know that you would be happy NOT to take it to court, and instead explore some more reasonable options with them directly first. It sounds like the relationship you have withthem now is one of control and manipulation, I think that situations like this are EXACTLY what the courts are in place for. If both parties can't be reasonable and civil (threatening to withould time with your grandchildren for business reasons is certainly not, I think), then there is help in place. It sounds like you are being bulldozed. I wonder if in the begining what they said was true, but then they just got power hungry and lost their heads and themselves in seeing that they can use the children to get whatever they want? This is not fair to you or the children, really. I wonder why they feel so threatened…I can see the begining situation being too much for them (though for you to move seems like a lot to ask to me, every family is different) if they where feeling a bit insecure, but now they hold all the cards, and they are not doing anything apropriate with the extreme amount of control they have taken over you and your life. I'm sure there is something that set this off, but it sounds to me like it's gone too far now for mmuch to be salvaged as is, there doesn't seem to be a healthy ammount of respect for you at all, and that is what you would need for a productive, equal relationship with them. Equal time, that's iffy, but equal levels of respect is so important in any relationship. I'm so sorry you are going through this, I can't imagine what could merrit my little girl being a bargaining chip or control tool.

12:48 pm
July 29, 2005


vesper

New Member

posts -1

Believe me, I think I have tried everything and I feel that everything I do or say is taken the wrong way. My daughter-in-law is the go-between and rarely lets me talk with my son. She says he doesn't want to talk to me. The last phone call from her was to tell me that she didn't like me, would never like me and that their life would be better if I would just stay out of it. This hurt a lot, but I thought my next step would be to talk with my son in person and ask him if he felt this way too. If he said he did I planned to tell him that although I loved him I would stay out of his life until he was ready because I want him to be happy. Unfortunately, she called me while I was traveling to their home ( a 7 hr drive) and told me that he did not want me to come that weekend. After a few weeks, I wrote this in a letter to him, telling him that I needed to hear this from him. I have not heard back from him. My question now is where do I go from here? Do I quite trying to see them, quit calling, etc.? or do I wait to hear from him? My family tells me to let it go, but I worry what my grandchildren are thinking about why I don't call or see them.

Does anyone know about grandparent's rights in Texas? I really want this to be my last resort, but it is hard to step away from my grandchildren. Help!!!

2:30 pm
July 29, 2005


shyshy

New Member

posts -1

Personally, I would probably let it go. I've heard it said before that children are like arrows. You shoot them in the direction you want them to go and once it's there your job is done.

If your son is not communicating with you then I would think he is also in agreement for whatever the reason. If not, he would make it a point to at least call you and explain.

Considering the problem with the business it seems like he doesn't have much respect for you or really value your involvement in his life.

Let them make their own way and chances are they will come to you some time down the road. Whether it be for reconciliation or help or advice.

It's like they say, what goes around comes around and they will feel the affects of their decision whether it be good or bad. when the kids get a little older I'm sure they will inquire of their grandparent on their own and you can explain then and they will be older and more able to understand.

3:13 pm
July 29, 2005


exoticflower

New Member

posts -1

I know that in Oklahoma my grandmother was allowed to, with a different last name and no proof get a copy of my birth certificate for me 4 years ago when I was 21. All she had to say was that 'it's for my grandbaby'. I think around those parts, grandparents as family is something held close to the heart. Though I'm not sure of the laws, the mindset of a community has a lot to do with how well people are received in these matters. I bet you'll find that if grandparenting time is available you will be met with a lot of support and effort by many.

7:56 pm
July 29, 2005


vesper

New Member

posts -1

Thanks for your help. I know it sounds like I am venting, and I guess I am. I think I have resigned myself to the hope that at some point my grandchildren will be old enough to come to me. It just hurts knowing that I am missing out on some wonderful times of their lives and life is so short. I have started a journal for them so that they will know that throughout this time I have thought of them and tried to see them. I just keep weighing which will hurt them the least, no contact or forced contact. I know my son tells them what is going on. At one point they asked me why I sued their daddy and have heard more than children should hear about what is going on. You are right, exotic flower, it is about control at this point and I continue to let them control me through the grandchildren. I think it is best for my peace of mind to focus on my other grandchildren because this is driving me nuts!!!

8:43 pm
July 29, 2005


exoticflower

New Member

posts -1

That is such a good attitude. Is there a way you can do little things just to show that you care, like send gifts or cards often, or have balloon bouquets delivered to their class on birthdays or something? Nothing to say "We wish we could be more a part of your life", as the parents may find it threatening or somenthing, but just little 'becasue you are special to us' signs you care? Your son and his wife could not find a way around something like this, and it can really let them know that you are thinking of them without leaving room for control or taking it personally on the adults part. Just a thought.

Did I read in another post that you are a therapist? I know that when my confidence and trust in myself was at its lowest I was very defensive with a friend of mines mother and thought she was using her understanding of the mind to analize and judge me. Not because she could have or would have, just becasue there where things about myself and the way I was feeling that I didn't want anyone to confront me with or to confront myself with, could that have something to do with where this originated with the wife? I guess I think most negative behavior, mine, I know, comes from disliking something about yourself.

4:51 pm
July 30, 2005


vesper

New Member

posts -1

exoticflower,

Thanks. I think that is a really good idea about sending things to school on their birthdays, etc. I did go one time to the school to see my granddaughter when they would not let me see her at the house. I was allowed to see my grandson but not her because she was "in trouble". I went during her lunch time. Let me add here that I used to be the school counselor at her school and know her teacher personally. They got furious with me and asked the school not to let me visit again without their permission! But I would hope that balloons, etc would be non-threatening.

You may have hit on something about the therapist angle. Yes, I'm a therapist and wrote the program which was the basis of our family business. She has told me in heated exchanges that I feel superior to her because she does not have a college education! This is so not true and I have never indicated this. My son does not have a college education either so this must come from her insecurities. I think being a therapist has kept me from reacting in negative ways to this whole thing. Otherwise, I might have told her from the first problem that I was going to be a part of their lives and get over it! Wish I could be more like Dr. Phil. Maybe we should get on his show!!!

I have continued to send care packages, something that I did with all of my kids when they were away from home, and of course Christmas and BD presents. My problem with this is that if they do get them and sometimes they don't, they are not told that it is from me. So your idea about school sounds better and better.

Thanks, this brightened my day. Anything I can help you with? Ha-ha.

5:40 pm
July 30, 2005


exoticflower

New Member

posts -1

Oh, TONS of stuff! I'm all over here, chirp in any time!:)

11:43 am
August 1, 2005


vesper

New Member

posts -1

Exoticflower. I can't figure out how you find someone on a thread??? Do you just pick one and read what has been written? Is there one that you started? If so, which one?

12:59 pm
August 1, 2005


mamacinnamon

New Member

posts -1

Vesper:

Does anyone know about grandparent's rights in Texas?

website:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/statutes.html

click: Search

in Code to Search type: Family Code

in Text to search for type: Chapter 102

click on #1. Family Code – Chapter 102

scroll down to S 102.004 Standing for Grandprent.

You will be able to figure it out from there. :)

2:37 pm
August 1, 2005


exoticflower

New Member

posts -1

Mama, how do you go about finding things like this? I am trying to find the legal whatnots for Indiana, all I can get is the general state guidelines which are very veugue. Is there a search engin for these sort of sites?

4:29 pm
August 1, 2005


mamacinnamon

New Member

posts -1

EF:

Nope, not that I know of.

I use Yahoo search or google search.

Type in: State of Indiana, County of ______, Court of ________ for if you know some specifics or are trying to find out specifics on a certain case.

if not: State of Indiana, Indiana Statutes for research such as rights.

If that doesn't help I'll check back later.

7:50 pm
August 1, 2005


spazzywazzy

New Member

posts -1

i hope you get to see your grandchildren you should listen to these peoples advice it is very good

7:10 pm
August 2, 2005


vesper

New Member

posts -1

mamacinnamon,

Thanks for the help. I will look this up. I talked to an attorney once. He thought it looked good, but there was some case in Wa that had been appealed and they were wondering what the outcome would be for all states. Don't know what happened there, but heard it wasn't good in terms of grandparenting.

I will keep this on the back burner, just in case. In the meantime, I continue to journal and pray about it.


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